Socionics & MBTI

Interview with Alexander Bukalov

Interview with Alexander Bukalov on Socionics

Aleksander Bukalov is an Ukrainian socionics specialist, doctor of psychology, director of the International Institute of Socionics (IIS) (International Institute of Socionics (IIS).

Interview conducted by Anna Roman:

Good afternoon, Alexander. Thank you for letting us interview you and answer our questions. It is lovely to meet you.Please, tell us about yourself in a few words, About your work in Socionics, how you started your work in this field, about the accomplishments or advances that you have already achieved

As for now, I serve as a director of the International Institute of Socionics. We founded it in 1991, 25 years ago, quite a long time. it all began when I while studying cybernetics, I hold a degree in cybernetics and physics, I understood that…I was dealing with the subject of creating artificial intelligence, back when I was a student, I understood… that the existing approaches didn’t describe… the principles of psychological processes modeling right. That’s why I started to study psychology and very soon I discovered Carl Gustav Jung’s psychology. There are different psychological functions and different ways of data processing and in Jung’s construct I saw new approaches to solve the problem of artificial intelligence, because human psychic is very diverse. Different forms of information processing and perception.

So it happened that when during the final years in our university… I was occupied with this… I drilled down Jung’s typology, studied a number of aspects concerned with psychology and psychoanalysis and when I began working in the field of modeling various processes, I got familiar with Socionics, which had just started to widespread. The year was 1986. In 1985, Aušra Augustinavičiūtė came to Kiev to give lectures on invitation of the Institute of Cybernetics. It was the biggest institute of Cybernetic in the former Soviet Union.

During one of the conferences they found out about Socionics. It happened during a bionics conference in Ukraine. Aušra’s students came from Kaunas, a city not far from Vilnius, the capital of Lithuania. And they just gave a report that there’s a new approach to the modeling of psychics.

This aroused much interest and great debates.

Among the reporters was Nikolai Nikolayevich Medvedev. He was the head of the radio-electronics department in a Research Establishment in Kaunas. It was a paramilitary university. Everything worked for the defense in the USSR. Nevertheless, he did that report, it attracted much interest, and as a result Aušra Augustinavičiūtė came to Kiev. She gave lectures in the Institute of Cybernetics, in our main Taras Shevchenko National University of Kyiv.

So it happened that under the influence of her reports and seminars a community of various specialists formed in Kiev, including cybernetics, psychologists, sociologists, biologists…and other educators, of course.

That formed a vision about Socionics…which grew into a working seminar very fast.

As a result, within this seminar…I, Victor Bulenko, Vladimir Yermak, Gregory Shulman, and many others started developing a number of ideas in the field of Socionics.

In 1986 the first great conference about Socionics was held in Poltava. It’s about 200-250 km away from Kiev, an old city. About 80 specialists from all over the USSR, from Baltics Aušra Augustinavičiūtė was there too, so was Ukraine, Siberia, Saint Petersburg. It was a huge conference which lasted for almost a week. And it showed that there was a great amount of interest in this issue.

After that there were usual annual conferences. The next one was in Siberia, in the Altai region, In Novosibirsk, Altai. Three days in Novosibirsk, near the Katun river. Yeah, in such conditions. As a result of us working together there was a very rapid formation of Socionics in Kiev.

The Socionics School in Kiev developed a number of new ideas that refined and developed the foundational ideas. That were proposed by Aušra Augustinavičiūtė. It has to do with the model about and introduction of functional dimensions. My works are about this, also with differentiated description of each type, the connection between
health psychoanalysis and type of person.

After this happened a generalization of Socionics, something we call Integral Socionics and Ethnosocionics. It is related to the fact that we can build informational description, an analogue of informational model for any collective, which we use in the university. And for further analysis of such vague terms, like nation’s mentality, ethnic mentality, folk mentality or government mentality…or mentality of some association, civil or political. So it can be described not just like a type but like a certain information structure…and then we can understand just like with humans…what strengths and weaknesses can this structure have, what is a motivation for action, and so on.

That’s why there are a lot of issues but…within the Kiev School we’ve made a lot of works. At first we printed them, made reports at conferences, because every year there were sometimes even two conferences in spring and autumn in the Baltic States, in Lithuania, Vilnius, Palanga, on the shore of the Baltic Sea…were held two conferences a year.

Since 1991, when USSR collapsed, the sixth Socionics conference was held in Palanga, thanks to the Latvian school’s efforts.

The seventh one was held near Kiev in autumn. It was our Institute of Socionics, we held the conference and after the USSR collapse great Socionics conferences are held in or near Kiev, the capital of Ukraine.

Last autumn, in September of 2015, we held the 31st International Socionics conference. There will be the 32nd conference this year. A lot of specialist of various fields gather and share their works in pedagogy of education, management, medicine, cybernetics, etc.

Now, about more earlier works…During the conference in Poltava in 1986 there were a number of works
from the Kiev School. I also made a report talking about a number of new works which hadn’t been written by Aušra Augustinavičiūtė yet. She approved them, and I started to publish them.

One of the large works had a very long scientific name, about the mechanism of formation of informational metabolism functions during the birth of an individual. It explained how the type is formed during the perinatal period, when a person is in embryonic state and later is born, and the aspects of function formation related to it, psychic functions or functions of informational metabolism, their individual characteristics and at the same time…not only what Socionics is concerned with but also the aspects of unconscious behavior of a person.

So, we are talking about individual configuration and using the works of Stanislav Grof, a famous psychiatrist. I showed that there’s a very clear connection between
accentuation and characteristics of a type and characteristics of birth process…Yeah, the characteristics of birth process.

The fact is, perinatal medicine and perinatal psychology outline 4 phases of birth, and each phase has its own Socionic component. As it turned out, it’s not only related to what Socionics describes but also to underconsciousness and superconsciousness. A person bears an imprint of the birth phase in a certain way which is connected to the formation of belonging to quadra. 4 birth phases correspond to 4 quadras: alpha, beta, gamma, delta. As a result, not only mental make-up forms, but also health aspects. Why? Because if some chemical substances affected an embryo or alcohol, etc, it will show on a certain stage. If during birth there was some mechanical interference, it will also affect person’s health. There are types that have spine or head problems, because their skull was pushed…problems with intestines and so on. So, these health aspects are well observed in some types and explain why people might have such problems in the long run.

Interviwer: Can we believe that there is some connection of perinatal development period with person’s mental and physical health and his type?

Bukalov: Yes, yes, yes.

I just put together what Grof’s patients described, when he studied perinatal psychology with the use of LSD, and the descriptions accepted in Socionics, and it turned out that there was a very strong correlation. You should study my work very carefully, it’s more than 20 pages, where I showed how psychic and type are formed.

So, when a person is born, its type has already formed. Then this type crystallizes, it stabilizes, and after that the type can’t be changed. It can only get covered with layers of environment influence.

When Stanislav Grof found out about Socionics, he introduced the concept of a system of compensated experience, when there is some basic event that forms the basis of mental configuration, and then on the principle of association other events are layered on top of it.

Let’s say there was some traumatic basis event and on the principle of emotions adjacency and so on…with fear or some other feelings…such pyramid forms. A pyramid that drags on to adulthood. That’s why the effectiveness of psychotherapy often depends on the level. If it’s neurosis, then it’s up to a psychotherapist, because you can cure of teenage angst, but it often turns out that it’s based on a more concrete child basis.

That’s what Freud was talking about, but he took the sideline. He was too concerned with the ideas of sexual character and so on. It’s only a particular case, but even if we manage to heal the child basis then a level of perinatal stresses will occur.

It’s also called the Rank’s level.

Otto Rank was one of Freud’s students who said that childhood stresses are secondary to perinatal. For that Freud expelled him. That’s how he treated his students which diverged from his teachings.

But Grof also called this level the Rank’s level or perinatal level. As it turns out, this is the basic level which forms the type and many mental and physical problems. Because a lot of unconscious tensions build up in it. This is related to the mental and physical levels. There are special techniques used to uncover them in adults.

You should just know and understand this. I managed to find a relationship between a type and…a cluster of problems that might exist in a person. Jung himself meant his typology for understanding from which side to approach a person. Because in order to look through the strong first function you have to pass the unconscious function. Because, as he said, in our terms it’s the 5th-6th function, it’s an unconscious form of a person. He talked just about an ordinary unconscious function.

After this work and…let’s say…understanding of the fact that Socionics is a self-similar structure, there’s such word, fractal…or self-similarity. I can describe it this way.

Let’s say, we look at a tree and see its branches. But if we look at the branches, then we’ll see that the bigger branches consist of the smaller ones. Right? And so it goes to infinity. That’s the fractal principle. If we look at the structure of Socionics as a whole, we’ll see that it’s based on the fractal principle as well.

Why? Because on the one hand we have Aušra Augustinavičiūtė’s Socionics, a science about socion and a socion device of humanity. Because there are 16 types that are interconnected with informational links. These form the psycho-informational system we call socion.

But after this we have a division into 4 groups, quadras.

Quadra consists of 4 types. Each of these types in its turn consists of 4 functions of a mental ring. So, we end up with a complex structure, and we can work with a person
on an individual level. We can work on a dyal, square level. We can work on a higher level. And then we consider these characteristics to design various optimal approaches.

Interviewer: Am I correct to assume that this was your first and most important research?

Bukalov: It was a series of works about the formation of types in a perinatal matrix, about socion’s fractality. The next became a revelation and gets cited and used a lot, it’s about that each psychic function has its own structure. It has its dimension. The first function has 4 active dimensions. The second one has three. Before that we didn’t understand what was their difference. We just said that -even Aušra said that- the first function is stronger than the second, the second is stronger than the third.

Interviewer: Give us an example of these functions.

Bukalov: For example, let’s look at a logical-intuitive introvert.
Analyst (Robespierre)…and his first function is system logic…or white logic. The second function is called basic or program. The second function is creative. It is intuition of possibilities. The third function is a role function, it’s relation ethics. And the fourth, the function of external resistance or painful function. This is volitional sensorics, or black sensorics. It is denoted by a black circle.

As a result, when people said that the first function is the strongest one. Well, everyone knew that it’s the strongest one.

Carl Gustav Jung identified 8 types, not 16 but 8, by the presence of the first function. He even didn’t divide types by the second function. He said there were logically-inverted types. And Socionics identified logically-intuitive or logically-sensory types.

But then a question arose. Well, okay…So, Socionics already had 16 types. Then a question arose.

Okay, there’s the strongest function, there’s the second and it’s active too,
but it acts a bit different. But what is their difference? Qualitatively and quantitatively? What is the difference of the role function, which is even weaker?

Well, at least one person is trying to cooperate.

And finally, why there is the fourth painful function, which is very weak and so on?

And it turned out that when I introduced the concept of dimensions I managed to describe it so well.

The first function of 4-dimensional, there are 4 vectors which cover the whole space of this logic. There’s a globality vector, vector of situations, vector of social norms, and vector of personal experience.

The second creative function is also strong, but it doesn’t have the globality vector. It always acts locally, here and now, as the occasion requires.

The third function is 2-dimensional. It has only social norms and personal experience. That’s why when a someone deals with something completely new they get confused.

And finally, the fourth painful function has only one dimension. It’s a function of personal experience. Although, if someone hasn’t experienced something personally, even if they were taught some rules, but they hadn’t experience them, and they hadn’t learned to apply, like behavior rules or driving rules, etc, then for them these rules are nothing. And any reprimand or facing the need to go outside the personal experience causes unpleasant psychological tensions, negative emotions which affect their health.

Thus psychosomatic syndromes develop, and the person might develop stress, psychosomatic aspects suffer, and as a result, the person develops psychosomatic disease. It might be connected to heart, lungs, liver, depending on the type.

Same goes for other functions of vital ring. There are just 8 functions.

Since Socionics is not only a theory of personality type, but is also a theory of inter-type relations, it turned out that relationships between people are also well described.

Moreover, judging by the length of these vectors, vectors of situations and so on, you can analyze the individual profile of a person, not just type but person, and features of his relationships with other people. Not just type but a certain variant, with certain developed vectors of situations, personal experience, etc.

Of course, it gives us a great rise, because we move from 16 abstract types to a more individual space.

Unfortunately, many don’t understand that Socionics has moved on from a naive idea of just 16 types on theory and practice a long time ago. We can now work on an individual level.

Interviewer: So, what else is taken into account in addition to the 16 types?

Bukalov: Of course! Because when we provide personal consultations or consultations in the field of management, reorganization of teams, recruiting, creating new teams, we very carefully study this individual configuration, keeping in mind who is the top manager.

Interviewer: I understood. Good. You’ve mentioned your collaboration with Aušra. Please, tell us how you’ve met her and Gregory Rainin? And what collaboration did you have?

Bukalov: Well, we only had discussions with Aušra. We met in 1986 in Poltava. She had just arrived. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to visit her lectures in 1985. But I was aware of them. We met in Poltava and talked a lot because we belonged to the same type. We had a friendly relationship, so we had things to discuss. In this sense we discussed a lot of things. I told her about some new ideas, she commented on them. And thus there was such a…Well, we’ve met many times, because many conferences were held in Lithuania. Then she came to Ukraine to visit conferences. She had been our consultant for a long time in the International Socionics Institute. She lectured in Vilnius and in our institute. Since she was №1 in Socionics, she had always spoken at conferences, till 1998. That’s why we discussed a lot of things.

As for Gergory Rainin, we met in 1987. I was going to Leningrad, it’s called Saint Petersburg now. He couldn’t attend to conference, that’s why I didn’t see him then.

But when I came to Leningrad, I met him and…well, I had already been acquainted with some Leningrad socionists, which had been in Poltava and in Katun. That’s why they introduced me to Rainin right away. We discussed a lot of things too, including the aspects of perinatal matrices, as he was also familiar with Grof’s works. He had his own hypothesis and we discussed all of that. Well, I can’t say that we had collaborative works with two names. But we discussed various ideas, concepts, testing methods. At that time he obtained a diploma in…well…he reviewed all known typologies and showed that all of them came down to the figure 16, plus-minus 4. That is, clinical, psychiatric, psychological—all danced around the figure 16. So, he made a logical conclusion that one mental structure is behind all of this, it is described in Socionics. He brilliantly defended this diploma and later on wrote a thesis, and became Doctor of Philosophy in Psychology and then in Socionics. That’s why I was working on a number of typologies too. We did a lot of work comparing different typologies, Licko, Kretschmer, Leonhard, and others, from Socionics point of view. That’s why we had a lot of topics to discuss. Plus, when his work about groups came out, we conducted researches in these groups. In Kiev, within our Socionics seminar, we had a lot of people, including students. And we modeled different groups on students –
5 such experiments. All over the world psychology is carried out on the students. Maybe you know, specially in the US or UK, 1-2 year students serve the role of guinea pigs. We also had quite a lot students taking interest in Socionics, that’s voluntarily participated in groups experiments. And we checked how these groups worked. Of course, there were control groups. There was also a random group that carried out similar tasks. We could say that only groups of social mandate worked very effective, or a group of 4 types that are interlinked with social mandate relations.

That’s one ring. There are 4 such rings. They can also be called brainstorm rings. Because tasks given to such rings get solved more effectively than by random people. Potentials and tacit knowledge of each person get uncovered very effectively.

Later on besides these we got other works.

Since 1990, before the foundation of the institute, we started consulting management. Market economy started developing and everyone began thinking about their teams’ effectiveness. So, we started consulting in this field. It turned out that Socionics works really well. We were getting invitations to various companies.

Then we got invited to Moscow by a soon-to-be millionaire. He had a big publishing house. So, he invited us, and we helped him. Then it so happened that we worked with one Moscow bank. And this bank worked with Siberia. In the Nadym city it worked with a local office of Zapsibkombank, which served Gazprom. Or rather that association which carries out gas recovery in the north. Just so you understand the scale -it’s about 40% of European gas. Dymovo, Pangody…that’s a great association, 12,000 people, 30 companies. That’s the scale. The bank was adopting an operating system, and the IT guys recommended us to this Siberian bank. We worked with it then. It made a very strong impression on the bosses.

Interviewer: How did you work with them?

Bukalov: They invited us. The situation was that the bank’s manager
had gone on a business trip the day before we arrived. And we worked with the collective, about 80 people. We tested and talked with them. Then we made layouts for teams, gave recommendations. We made a report and so on.

The most interesting part is that we understood what type of personality did the bank manager have. And we left an envelope for her containing her description, psychological and socionical, in three pages. It started like this: “We think that you…”

We gave this envelope to her assistant. We missed each other, unfortunately, but when she opened the envelope and read it, she was very impressed. So much that after 2-3 months she recommended us to the CEO of this association, who was just…well…Just so you understand. He was 35 years old from junior management of this association and was given the CEO post. The one who appointed him went to the central office of Gazprom. And so, a new CEO, 35 years old. He has only 12 deputy CEO’s. Each is older than him by 15 years or even 20.

Bisons. North bisons

He was managing the collective, of course. It was much smaller, though. And suddenly he gets told that there are people that can count his collective and give recommendations for each in his office. He says, ‘Call them immediately!’

Since the bank served the company and they met regularly due to socionical laws they understood each other very well.

We worked with the bank in winter. In autumn we arrived on invitation to Gazprom, and we had been working with them from 1993 till 2000.

Yeah, so long.

We arrived 2 times a year for a month. And in this way we worked.

Interviewer: What have you achieved?

Bukalov: First, we looked at his team, his management team…because it’s a very complex structure. There were 12… 13… 14 deputies. Deputies of finance, economy, energy, agriculture, and so on. That’s a local economic mainstay of 30 enterprises of various fields. One company -Nadynga Servic- included several hotels, leisure clubs, canteens, cafes, sanatorium, etc. Medicine is separate, because it is very important in the north, and so on…So, there were many various [inaudible]and so on. And we slightly reconfigured this team, so he could understand he first of all needed to rely on a line of commands. After that we gave him a layout of all management. It was about 100 people. Among these 100 people there were only directors and managers, heads of departments and their deputies. Just imagine the scale. Then we started to work with specific enterprises, with managers once again. We finished working on the top.“Yeah, everything’s great!”

He checked it out for half a year. Everything matches.

“Come back again!”

So we had been working like that for a few years. Then he was given a raise in Moscow. Right now he is the head of one of the Gazprom’s departments. Well, but we had been still working there till 2000. After that the team switched and, well…crisis broke out, a new team came to Gazprom, and they made changes. But it turned out that all of the predictions we made…they worked for a long time. When we made a part of work with the personnel service…Because usually corporations just…gather information about a person, their previous job experiences and so on. That’s our candidates pool. Is he able to take on the head of the department position or not? We were working at a more specific level. Out of this array we chose those who are more promising. Well, and how good will we work together with other colleagues on each level and with superiors in corporate relations? And in this way we change candidates pool and as a result a number of enterprises was reorganized. Some even merged. This optimized salaries really well, taking into account high north salaries, and a number of other aspects of management, and so on.
So actually, we were working so much…because it gave real and tangible result.

I can also tell you about one interesting mashup.

The thing is, Gazprom has its own sociological and psychological services,
and an institute in Tyumen, not only in Moscow. And we worked with one of the building departments, which build winter roads mostly…within the complex of enterprises. The head of this department says:

“Oh, that’s the first time I see a report I can work with. I’ve been tested here already”, and he brings two thick folders from a shelf:

“Here I was tested in Moscow and in Tyulen”

So what that I’ve been tested along with my colleagues with MPI tests? So what if my accountant has 60% of para-loyalty? I couldn’t care any less!

Or the main engineer has some percent of schizoidness.

What should I do with it? I don’t know!

“But you have 2-3 pages of recommendations.
Everything is clear!”

Socionics allows not to describe the whole person. It’s possible to describe a person. There are hundreds of psychological tests for that. It allows to see the most important thing about a person…in terms of some of his working characteristics.

Socionics also allows to compress a lot of data about a person into very concise recommendations. Because the name of the type itself, let’s say a “Logical-intuitive introvert”, it carries colossal information. You can expand it to 100 pages…or not. This draws conclusions:

“This one gets this position, that one gets that position, and this one should be a chief, and it works. And his deputies should be this one, this one, and this one”. Preferably. Everything should be implied as the occasion demands. Simple experience shows that when our recommendations were followed everything worked out.

I remember, in 2003 on a “Business Psychology” conference in Saint Petersburg, it was a very big conference, all over Russia and CIS, about 150 participants. There were top-managers, personnel managers. And when I was delivering a report about how we work with Socionics, including Gazprom, in the north. What’s Russian High North—freezing cold, -35-40°C, very treacherous weather, it might be -40°C today…and the next day it might be +2°C because the wind blows from the Kara Sea, it’s the Arctic Ocean, or from the continent. Why do they build and watch over winter roads? Because if you don’t care about them today, tomorrow they’ll melt, and everything will get stuck. That’s why they must be constantly looked after. And building in permafrost is very tough, because it might melt and tumble down. That’s why global warming poses a great threat for the north. Because the soil in this ice is very unstable.

Yeah, so, after my report I was approached by a personnel director of a paper integrated plant. This integrated plant produces about 40-50% of office papers. For the CIS as well, not only for Russia. And he said “You know, we were bought by a Western company, we have Western management, technologies, we’re testing employees all the time. For each employee we have about 100 pages of psychological data. We don’t know what to do with it. And you solve the problems we can’t even find.”

What is the advantage of Socionics? We don’t need 100 pages. You can expand it if you want. But these 100 pages won’t help us to decide where to effectively put a person. That’s very important. Yeah, and the most remarkable thing is that after I made my report, the next day there was a spontaneous demand for the participants, so that the organizers of the conference would invite us next year. About the methods of Socionics and Management. The official participants were asked. The interest was so high. After that we started to get invited a lot. We worked a lot in Siberia and the Irkutsk region, with local companies and holdings, and other big companies. They turned out to be more susceptible.

Our experience shows that Socionics is very effective in this field.

Let’s go further.

Interviewer: What do you think, on what stage of development is Socionics as a science right now, and what should be polished or developed more?

Bukalov: Well, on what stage, let’s see…Since 1995 we’ve been publishing a Socionics magazine. That’s our first magazine, “Socionics, Methodology and Psychology of Personality”. Here are another 2 magazines that have been published since 2012, “Psychology, Socionics of Commercial Relations”, “Management and Staff”, “Management Psychology, Socionics and Sociology”.

When Socionics started to get actively applied in pedagogy, psychotherapy, management, this brought a lot of people who required it for their work. It’s scientific. Today Socionics is more than 1,000 dissertations of various fields: pedagogy, jurisprudence, psychology, psychotherapy, sport, sociology. Almost all humanitarian sciences. People using technologies, computer systems…So, human-machine complexes are…Dissertations have been defended about this and methods of Socionics. We obtained a socionical model of interacting not only with humans, but with the outside world as well.

Many try to say that Socionics is just a primitive set of 16 types. That’s the lowest level of understanding Socionics. That’s a level of Myers-Briggs Type Indicator. Yeah, so I’ve mentioned these. We also have a magazine researching the fundamentals of psychic and consciousness, “The Physics of Consciousness and Life”, “Cosmology Astrophysics”. There are 2 magazines like this. The 2nd is called NeuroQuantology.
It is [not?]published in English. But we plan to publish in English too. And there was a magazine that is not published anymore, “Pedagogy. Psychology and Socionics of Education”. It’s not published because crisis broke out…and we couldn’t make it a subscription edition. Also we have another magazine, “The Origin of the Language and Culture”. That’s a more cultural magazine with historians. But Socionics allows to describe the society as well. There are many models of mentality of countries and nations, international relations fit it very well…and predicting…A model of interaction of USA’s mentality with mentality of the Arab world…Latin-American world…or Brazil or Ecuador, how it interacts with Western Europe…Britain’s mentality…How it interacts with Russia…or Ukraine. There’s a whole lecture course available online. I am working on a book about that. It is dedicated to the expansion of Socionics. As it turns out, the form of state, culture, religion are interlinked with integral type…and they interact with each other in a certain way too. The world history, the way we see it, is interactions of world leaders…. with people’s mentality. That can be seen very well when people accept or don’t accept, or they can be excited at first and then disappointed. All of this is described very well with intertype relations, withing integral Socionics. And of course, a managers team or political team must be described very well with these things. Many people are interested in this. I hope that by the end of the year or early next year the book will be published regarding this question.

Interviewer: Let’s hope. Tell us about each magazine in more detail. About the research and observations.

Bukalov: I also have a published book. Do you want me to show it to you?

Interviewer: Yes, of course.

Bukalov: Then give me a minute.

Interviewer: Ok.

Bukalov: Let’s get it in the right order. About how Socionics is developing. In addition to magazines there’s a great number of scientific works. If you look in Google Scholar library…Google Scholar Service allows to see most of the scientific publications. Not popular but scientific. If we look into Google Scholar we might find about 2,000. Or if you enter “Socionics” in Ukrainian, there will be around 2,200 . If we look in the scholarly library Russian Science Citation Index…we’ll find about 1,250 publications. What’s surprising is that they update everyday a lot of university chairs work with or are interested in Socionics. Socionics is taught as a subject in more than 180 universities in the CIS and Eastern Europe. You can find out more in the “Tradition” encyclopedia, because Russian Wikipedia describes it very poorly. There is the “Tradition” Socionics or Medical encyclopedia on Socionics. They describe a lot of things, even programs in universities. So, there are 180 universities, including MSU, Sociological department developed Bachelor program in Socionics. Yeah, it was developed by sociological department and approved by MSU’s principal. In a number of other universities too. Plus in a number of universities Socionics is being taught in 2 departments. There’s the Samara State Aerospace University. Socionics is taught there by the departments of Management and Psychology. Philosophers analyze their own terms within Socionics, and so do managers. And plus this is because we produce our magazines. Since information gets spread, people read it and take this knowledge. Our magazine is the most important: “Socionics. Methodology, Psychology of a Personality”. We plan in the next two months to make a pilot in English. An online publication. We hope people will like it and we’ll be able to continue producing it. This magazine has been published for 21 years. It comes out 6 times a year. Of course, it’s the most important magazine. The second magazine, “Management and Staff”, is dedicated to the aspects of management…and applying the methods of socionics in management. It’s not only about Socionics but about organizational psychology also. The emphasis is on socionical methods. It has been published since 2003. For 12 years has also been published the “Psychology and Socionics of Interindividual Relations” magazine. It’s more about pedagogy, psychology, psychotherapy, psychoanalysis. Once again, everything is through the prism of Socionics. The theory describing basic psychic structures. Here’s our magazine, “The Physics of Consciousness and Life”, which we…well…We tried to describe psychic and its processes more fundamentally from a physical point of view. There’s also biophysics and other aspects. What is called anthropic principles based on a living in the cosmic context, what is called
biosphere and cosmos and so on.

Interviewer: So that’s not really related to Socionics?

Bukalov: No, it’s not. It’s rather about the connection between psychic and physical processes.

Back when our “Pedagogy” magazine had been published… “Psychology and Socionics”, it was in the context of education and attitude. Now these articles are published in “Psychology and Socionics” magazine. In this case readers didn’t miss a thing.

Interviewer: All of the articles are written by you, right?

Bukalov: No, we have a lot of authors. All of the 2,000 articles and others are written by about 100 specialists gather at our conference every year.
Those are the most active authors. We also have a lot of authors from university chairs. We have candidates, doctors. There are socionical laboratories in a number of universities which develop one or another aspects. For example, evaluation of a sport, the necessity of teamwork, teamplay in figure skating, and so on.

Does that make sense? This a real developing field, which gives real results.

There was a curios case. A MIA lieutenant-general Alferov, unfortunately, he died in a car-crash. He was a famous psychologist in this field, and he published a study “Penitentiary Socionics”. It is based on the relations in a criminal environment, and interactions of officers with this environment.


So, yeah, Socionics is used on such level. There are a lot of applicable aspects. I’ll talk about this a little more. And the last magazine, “The Origin of the Language and Culture”, it touches upon the aspects of ancient cultures, integral types, mentality. Many historical processes can be understood by using Socionics. Because it allows not only see the layout of present situation, but it also contains an instrument, description of what might happen, evolution of organization. So there are certain stages of development which are described very well by these instruments and concepts. We even can say which stage the organization is on and what leaders are required on this certain stage. On the next stage they will fade into the background and others will take their place. And if they won’t go, a crisis will break out. Either a production crisis or sales crisis…or maybe structural crisis. This was traced by us time and time again, discussed with executives, and it was all checked, of course.

In 2009 I published my book, based on a number of studies: “The Potential of the Individual and Mysteries of Human Relationships”. It’s only the 1st part, I am preparing the 2nd part of the same volume. Well, it’s pretty thick, about 500 pages. Actually, it’s a textbook on Socionics with examples. That’s why if someone will be interested in its publishing…or at least publishing a part of it, we can talk about it.

If we are to talk about the use of Socionics today… where is it used the most? In management, as I said.

Second—manned cosmonautics. In a Star City in order to prepare stronauts…Socionics has been used since 1992. So, 24 years already. Doctor of Medicine professor Bardyshevsky engaged in this. He visited our conferences on multiple occasions, and told us about the use of Socionics, consulted with us, of course. Till this day Socionics is used for checking astronauts’ compatibility. When they are thrown into a survival training in desert or taiga or somewhere else, an official report is made
about their survival training. And there’s a book of Sergey Zhukov available online. It’s simply called “Become an Astronaut”!

Interviewer: He writes about it, right?

Bukalov: He writes about it and cites a fragment of a report about the use of Socionics. There are characteristics of a commander, flight engineer, and so on. And summary: what is the degree of compatibility… using the data about a week of survival. You realize it’s a whole week in a desert or taiga. Not that easy.

Interviewer: Yeah, that’s right.

Bukalov: It is available! By the way, you have a link with a quote in those electronic encyclopedias I mentioned. You’ll find everything in them.

Where else is Socionics used? Where it is crucial to get the best staff compatibility. That’s aviation Socionics, there is such field. It is being developed both in Russia and Ukraine. In Saint Petersburg there’s a 20 years old Malyshevskiy group. It’s commercial aviation. In Ukraine too. In Kiev and Kirovograd. It’s a Flying School and…with commercial aviation. And even if you’ll look at the prep program of air staff officially accepted by the Department of the Transportation, it is prescribed to study Aviation Socionics. There are 2 topics: Classic Socionics, Aviation Socionics, staff compatibility and…what I was talking about, analysis of air staff interactions of this whole system. So, everything is developed and brought to the level of instructions, because it is that important.

So, there’s Cosmic Socionics, Aviation Socionics…there’s also Pedagogy Socionics. There’s a great amount of dissertations, about 1/4, is dedicated to pedagogy. A huge amount of studies. And a great amount of studies is used for interactions between teachers and students, motivation of students. So that students acquire required information and so on. Compatibility of students, some new approaches to cases…when there’s incompatibility of a teacher and student. Interactions within pedagogy environment. That’s well developed not only in the CIS but also in Bulgaria. The Siberian University published a study on this topic. So…Sociology is developing very well. Especially Integral Socionics. And where safety is a top priority. For example, in a number of nuclear stations there are staff testings so that during working time only
compatible people work. So there were no mistakes in management. Since we had the Chernobyl Disaster, and that’s very important…This information is available online too. In special textbooks on nuclear stations’ safety there’s a chapter called “The Basics of Socionics”. So, in that sense, Socionics has already become an applied science. There are very many ways to use it. I covered the most significant ones. For example, I know that Satom sets up summer schools every year…for the youth, for those who are under 30-35 years. And in every school there’s always a course of Socionics.

Interviewer: What do you think should be improved? What is not studied enough?

Bukalov: I would say… Actually, we have already studied a lot. Maybe there’s lacking… Let’s say… There’s a lack of mass application… or mass education, because in some regions it is done. For example, our experiments showed that 10-graders comprehend Socionics really well. The basics of Socionics, and people go in life being much more prepared. So they understand their strong points…and their weak points. The problem is not in research but in mass application of Socionics, especially in pedagogy and education. Because in management many Russian and Ukrainian, and Eastern European companies use methods of Socionics. Another thing is how they use them. Some use them in a simple way, some— sophisticated…depending on their qualification. I’d say there are 2 problems: pull up the general level of knowledge of Socionics, especially applied Socionics, and mass spreading, because in many universities students obtain information about Socionics, but not in all universities it is taught in great detail. Sometimes it’s just theoretical without any practice. This causes this disruption. As for research, a lot of research has been done. From the examples that I have cited, it is clear that, practically speaking, Socionics represents a well-developed tool. The question is to apply it wisely, and for this we just need to increase the qualification level. We’ve been certifying specialists in Socionics for a long time. There’s an International Scientific Council consisting of 20 PhD’s in Psychology, Sociology, including Socionics and Biology. And this council certifies specialists. And in addition to the fact that Socionics is not taught in universities, there’s also people who studied Socionics within socionical schools. They all get… as the second higher education, they obtain a bachelors or masters degree in Socionics. If they continue working hard and have a lot of works they can even earn PhD in Socionics. But there are a lot of Doctors already. For example, right now we have about 150 bachelors in Socionics, about 50 masters and 15 Doctors of Science. So, there’s such proportion. Each year several dozens bachelors graduate.

Interviewer: Have you ever worked with Victor Gulenko? Maybe you can tell us about your collaboration or his works?

Bukalov: We are colleagues and friends with Mr. Gulenko. For many years we’ve been communicating and collaborating. He really has a lot of interesting studies, especially the early ones. They are well cited and used. We don’t have studies with our names on them, but we share many mutual citations, because we’ve developed a lot ideas together. And Kiev Socionics School is… we started, although, there were other people too. But a lot of studies started from our discussions. And…without a doubt, Victor Gulenko is one of the leading socionists. In the past few years he began to work out. This model is on the stage of development and… let’s say it…is not really accepted by all specialists. But he is developing it and teaching. Concerning his studies in the 90’s and early 2000’s, they are very popular and they get cited and published a lot. Sometimes Victor Gulenko and his students conduct experimental checks of some socionical regularities in the field. And every year at the conference he reports about the inspection in the field of some behavioral socionical aspects. Well, and he also publishes these studies. Well, stuff like that.

Interviewer: Well, if we go beyond theoretical reasoning, what are the most significant experiments have you conducted? Or maybe Victor? What most significant experiments can you describe?

Bukalov: You see, I’ll say this. We’ve worked very hard with small groups. We’ve checked them during experiments first. Then we’ve observed in real conditions… and even in extreme conditions of the deep north. Then we’ve gathered many groups in the working environment at the enterprises. Not only in the far north but also here. And we had an opportunity to observe working people for years. You see. So these significant experiments take years.

What’s good about Socionics is that it’s not about swinging arms. If these people won’t be able to work together and in 6-7 months will fight and so on, it really is worth it. We have computer software which allows us to simulate a collective and calculate the degree of comfort for each person, to calculate integral types of this collective. We’ve been using computer technologies for a long time. Because it’s impossible to manually calculate a collective of more than 10 people. And since 1992 we’ve been using software which is improving, of course, to calculate any collective.

Interviewer: What devices do you use? How do you do it?

Bukalov: Well, we calculate a collective. When we enter the data the we’ve collected about the types and other parameters, our software tells us that this collective is characterized with such degree of stability, that’s his interaction rate specific numbers, how each team member feels himself. Actually, in some way it is an interaction rate of a person. If he has positive rates then he can be trusted…and he can do something more than now. If he has negative rates then he’s already failing or hardly managing.
As they say in the north: “What is the price of the issue?” Is it possible to teach a cat to smoke? Yes, it is. But why? Right? You can make a person to work under uncomfortable functions. You can. But he’ll start getting exhausted, making mistakes, etc. And you’ll get a disastrous result. We’ve seen people that had gray hair at 35. They feel ill at ease, right? People simply get worn out, get sick a lot. But they don’t get it. They think it’s all good, that it’s his own problem. But when you look it up, you see he has a ton of conflicts. People don’t get it. They think they are ok, but they are not ok. They get liver, kidney problems, etc.

Interviewer: By the way, yes. You say that you’ve studied health and Socionics’ influence on it…

Bukalov: Yes. I’d like to say that we have a big data base…and once we’ve thought about statistics of married couples, these statistics were not about couples that visited family counseling. They had to do with random people. Because when people work there in one city, husband works at one enterprise, wife—at another one, right? But when we put it all together, it turns out that they are married and we can easily count…well… people that haven’t complained about problems. So, there won’t by any sample distortion. And we’ve taken about 140 married couples that had been living in marriage from 2 to 40 years. And we’ve looked at the statistic. It turned out that the picture is totally marvelous…and fully matches socionical beliefs. Because in inner-quadral relations, one of the best, 65% are stable couples. If you add to that social order relations, which are also considered pleasant, that’s another 12%. Thus, 77% stable couples live in relations which are directly considered pleasant by Socionics. As for others, there are neutral, business, kindred and other relations. They compose about 20% and bad relations—a couple percents. About 0.5%-3% are relations of potential conflict and so on. But even in these 77% the first place take dual relations. What Aušra Augustinavičiūtė wrote about the dual nature of men, 45% of couples live in dual relations, according to our data. That is, 45% out of 65%. Other relations take up 20%. Mirror, identical, and activation. So, the 1st place take dual relations—45%, the 2nd place—social order relations—12%, the 3rd place—activation relations—10%, and 5-6% for mirror and identity relations. They aren’t as pleasant but are more pleasant than others. So, here you go. In this way we’ve accurately checked all of this and then…this article was published in the late 90’s. It’s actively cited. Then we’ve grown our statistics and nothing changes drastically.

Interviewer: What have you studied? Their health, some indicators?

Bukalov: We’ve studied the stability criterion of a married couple. Not health but stability. If they haven’t divorced in 2-3 years and continue to live in marriage, that’s a stability criterion. But they can live in an unhappy marriage. Some live in unhappy marriages, about 1-2% of conflict, 2-3% of revision, in business relations, illusory. We can’t say that they are happy, but also that they are very unhappy.

Interviewer: What impact on health do dual relations have?

Bukalov: Dual relations help and greatly impact health because people in dual relations…might get rid of phobias and fears.

Interviewer: For example?

Bukalov: Well, if someone has non-organic psychological problems related to old fears…or strict upbringing or something else…It’s not unusual in our time. And in dual relations it all goes away. In unpleasant relations it gets worse.

Interviewer: In conflict, right?

Bukalov: In conflict, revision and some other relations. Quadral relations are great, because they heal many problems. After living together for a long time, partners adjust to each other… and everything gets smooth. Dual relations have a very small number of divorces. And they improve mental and physical health.

Interviewer: And conflict?

Bukalov: Everything is different in conflict and revision relations. Even if partners protect themselves psychologically, it still affects subconsciousness. Because you can’t hide informational interactions and subconsciousness. And people develop psychosomatic diseases. For example, it will affect one’s eyes and kidneys of another one. We’ve seen a married couple with kids, they didn’t know anything about Socionics but they found a psychological exit. Every night, almost till 12, they had guests. Friends, neighbors, relatives, someone else…who diluted them. Then they went to sleep, went to work in the morning, and when they came back, someone was visiting them. And in this way they’ve been living for years. But what I said about eyes, liver, and kidneys, they had severe symptoms. In unhealthy marriages very often one partner shrivels. That’s a slim disease syndrome. “I am sick, don’t touch me”. Because once they do something, they get criticized the same moment. And all of this later comes in form of psychosomatic diseases. So, people in dual relationships even live longer. Right? The thing is in Petersburg…physicians and others made experiments…I probable have told you already.

Interviewer: Yes, you did.

Bukalov: That we just sorted them by quadras, and then we applied… A number of psychotherapists gather groups by diads or quadras. There is collective psychotherapy, it is better to gather such groups for it by diadras or quadras. Efficiency increases greatly. And there are psychotherapists that use special formulas of influencing people to cure of bad habits. Smoking, for example. So, there are verbal formulas that affect
activation function of a person, personality type carrier. This verbal formula is told this person from time to time, during psychotherapy. And they write that the result is great. That just works. Same goes for the treatment of phobias. You can know how information looks in model. You can work over one phobia with each function on vital and mental ring. And this will cure a person from his initial phobias. Fear of darkness, rats, and so on.

Interviewer: How do you think… is there something in dual relations that
makes them special? Or is there something to prove that dual are not the best relations?

Bukalov: Well, dual relations give a feeling of safety and comfort, and mutual supportiveness. When people understand each other not just at a glance…You’ve just thought of it, and the other person has already done it…That’s an interesting phenomenon. Because there’s a synchronization of data processing in mental processes. That is amazing. I used to live in a dual marriage myself. I can say for sure that… You don’t have to say a word, as it’s already happening. That’s the duality phenomenon. Activation relations are very good too but they are very bright, strong…They are too energetic, that’s why they are more rare. There are probably more people that live active dynamic lives with frequent separations. For example, actors. Their marriages are very often short. Because of tours, shootings, and so on. Many reactions of people are due to, as Aušra Augustinavičiūtė noticed, people have dual nature. Most of our involuntary actions are unconsciously intended for our dual partner to accept. Sometimes if people belong to different types they might not understand them. You see. But people send personality signals because of the dual aspect. There are quadral aspects and more complex, but first above all people show their dual nature.

Interviewer: And what about conflict relations? They are opposite, right?

Bukalov: We all know about the American Myers–Briggs typology. There are 16 types also. They are very similar to socionical, but the problem is that they didn’t go further. A simple human typology and Myers-Briggs typology are on the lowest level. And then there’s the structure of psychic. That’s the basics of Socionics. Then how information is processed, how intertype relations form. There’s my article about it.
About the level of perception and understanding of Socionics. It is available in our large socionical library of the Institute of Socionics. So, there’s my article, which shows… Of course, when people first get into this topic, at first they understand separate personal features. Rationality, irrationality, logic, ethics. Then they realize there are types, just like Myers-Briggs. And then comes Socionics with psychic functions or functions of informational exchange, that they are connected in a system,
they process information. They interact and people constantly get into intertype relations or psychological relations. That is Socionics. There’s no such thing in any typology, including Myers-Briggs. I’ve read article in a newspaper the other day. A journalist student studied Myers-Briggs in a college, in many colleges and universities they are tested. And then she found out about Socionics and wrote “Did you know that Myers-Briggs sucks in comparison to Socionics, and Socionics is 2.0. These versions are common to them, right? And you should study Socionics”. So she wrote it, and I accidentally found this article online. There’s understanding that Myers-Briggs had played its role. It is very widespread, because it’s the USA. And USA’s technologies cover the whole world, right? But if we take Eastern Europe and CIS, Myers-Briggs typology did not stick here. Because its place was taken by Socionics. And everyone could see how superior Socionics was. Although, many are impressed with 16 types.
And we say, “Wow, it’s the lowest step”. And everyone’s like, “Yeah?”. We attended psychology conference in Krakow, Britain and Eastern Europe. And they were very impressed with our theses and proposed us to hold a symposium within the Congress. It’s about half a day, 3 reports with arguments. Well, that is… They held only 2 symposiums within the Congress, so you know. Ours and another one. They were so impressed. And there was this Myers-Briggs typology professor from Chicago. He was very impressed. And he said, “Yes, that’s a far more developed system”. Now Socionics got to Internet, many know about it. Everything is heading towards understanding that Myers-Briggs is yesterday news…and its place will be naturally taken by Socionics. That’s just the next stage of development. The problem with Myers-Briggs is that we understand how the type is built and they mixed up…Well, they know that the type has 2 functions, and they mixed these 2 functions up in a number of types. This led to cessation of its progress about 40 years ago. Yes, knowing that there are types, they made very detailed descriptions. And that’s it. They can’t say anything about intertype relations…because they have nothing to build them from. Moreover, without understanding this…There’s a professor, David W. Keirsey, who popularized this typology. He wrote a book “Please Understand Me”, and in the early 1970’s he popularized Myers-Briggs typology. Before that it wasn’t very famous. And he tried to understand their relations and simply postulated. “Let’s say that the best relations comply with the proverb…opposites attract”. So, all scales must be opposite. The problem is that in Socionics opposite Jung’s scales match conflict relations.

Interviewer: So, the opposites after all.

Bukalov: Yes, because duals have 3 opposite scales, and the 4th ones, rationality and irrationality, match. This is important, because even typologists know that rational and irrational people have different ways in life. Rationals irritate irrationals, and here’s such confusion. As a result, David W. Keirsey had been advocating for 40 years as the best relations which in Socionics are considered conflict or revision.

Interviewer: Opposites attract comes from this probably?

Bukalov: No, it’s just a proverb. He used it. He assumed that opposites attract and so on. He did it mechanically and advocated for 40 years. And in the early 2000’s the world had to accept that this was nonsense. And under the influence of Socionics he removed all of these statements. I have the last edition translated to Russian and there’s no track of it. Simple as that. He didn’t understand it anyway. He didn’t write about Socionics, as he was quite old, over 80. But he understood to remove it. And people always get assured that their relationships are the best. Sometime ago Keirsey’s follower came to Kiev from Canada. He was assigned as the head of Management Institute, and I asked him, “How can you live like that?”, and he said “You don’t understand! Such relations are awesome! Such passionate quarrels, fat-faced passions! It is so valuable”. I say, “Yeah, yeah, valuable. For a week. And what then?”. Then I told him about Socionics, and he just got afraid. He understood how important it was and he said, “It’s a weapon. How can it be allowed to talk about it?”, and so on. He got scared. He wasn’t even glad that there was such a tool for management too. He just got scared.

Interviewer: Yes, that’s funny.

Bukalov: Such things happen too. It was a long time ago, in the 90’s. You’ve asked about astrology too.

Interviewer: One second. I wanted to talk about health a little more. When you studied health groups or bouquets, Rainin published studies about them. What do you think about them? Do you know how these experiments were carried out? Maybe some vitals were measured? Heartbeat, pressure, anything.

Bukalov: We haven’t worked with health groups. Unfortunately, I can’t say anything about these experiments. Experiments were carried out by Rainin’s students. We were working on other groups. Well, rings of social order, rings of revisions. We weren’t interested in the health aspect, we were interested in the management aspect. But while interviewing people who worked in such relations, we noticed the patterns. Here’s a direct speech of the Director of Human Resources of one company: “I don’t get it. We are preparing for a weekly briefing. We sit for an hour, for two. Everyone’s mad, head is aching. Then there’s a metallic aftertaste. And we can’t solve any issue. We looked at what was going on. And it turned out that a revision ring gathered at the briefing. When one person reviewed the other, and there was this loop. Moreover, there were 2-3 persons of this type. So it was reinforced. And here you go. We made a report, and when he saw it, he just went “wow”. We’ve encountered such problem 2 or 3 times more. So people describe it like this: occurring of headache, metallic aftertaste, and general sickness. It’s obvious that if you lock people up in such group, they will be uncomfortable. We laugh at one thing now. The American writer O. Henry has this novel about gold miners. And there’s a joke. If you want to encourage the craft of manslaughter, lock 2 people in a 5×6 foots hut. Human nature would have no chance. That’s exactly about such relations. About mirage relations, yeah. We haven’t used any devices for our studies but studying subjective impressions of people who worked and relaxed in different relations, and mirage ones too. And yeah, it was very pleasuring
and comfortable. They couldn’t work but relaxing was good.

Interviewer: What about dual?

Bukalov: Or maybe people were in business trips for a few weeks and so on.
About such things, yes.

Interviewer: And dual?

Bukalov: Well, dual relations are universal. They cover all of the aspects. It is important to find someone whose yours and not someone else.

Interviewer: Yeah, that’s for sure.

Bukalov: So that they matched your configuration.

Interviewer: So, you haven’t made any experiments measuring with devices?

Bukalov: No, we didn’t use any devices. Our colleagues did and they say that it works. But we didn’t do it. We worked with management, consulting, theoretical studies, some sport Socionics. But we didn’t measure anything. There are other people that do it.

Interviewer: And based on this, you don’t know what is happening in physical way during conflict relations? Maybe people sweat in addition to headaches.

Bukalov: No, that’s not conflict relation, that’s revision.

Interviewer: But what about conflict?

Bukalov: It’s not that simple in conflict relations. You see, it’s not that simple at all. In the beginning partners are interested in each other. They are too unusual. Our colleague in Lvov made a huge experiment at the registry offices of Lvov. It was back in the 90’s, 2000’s. He tested couples that were getting married. And then he observed for how long they lived together. As it turned out the first marriage among the youth…in 40-50% of cases people get into conflict relations. And in 80 months this marriage breaks down. It was the most huge experiment. This unusualness attracts. But it takes for a great conflict about a year at work, in personal relation a little sooner. From a couple of months to 9-10 months. He also tested their values…various. How people felt about a family, partner, life…some additional responsibilities. And it turned out that in all relations apart from conflict values of partners after some time started to be similar. Some had stronger similarities, some weaker but they were nearing. They only differed in conflict relations. That’s the development we get.

Interviewer: That’s interesting. Can we always consider conflict relations as unhealthy?

Bukalov: If there’s a production necessity…then it can work out. But it would be better, if there were not 2 but 3 persons. So there’s an interpreter who smooths everything, a middle-man. We have developed different approaches to different cases. That can help solve the issue.

Interviewer: I’ve seen different typologies, for example, by goals. If the goal is marriage then there’s such typology. What are the best and the worst relations. There are also for work, for some goal. And depending on the goal there’s a typology of relations from best to worst. What do you think about it?

Bukalov: Typology of what relations?

Interviewer: Well, intertype relations.

Bukalov: Socionical?

Interviewer: Of course, yes. For example, for marriage dual are best. The worst are revision. And there’s some gradation between them. For work, for some goal.

Bukalov: It depends on the goal of people. In this sense dual relations are universal and other relations…other relations are less universal.

Interviewer: I see.

Bukalov: Dual relations are universal for everything. Activation relations are less universal, as there are more limitations in relations of identities. You see?

Interviewer: Let’s talk about visual classification then. How do you think…what do scientific researchers say about visual classification, and what can you tell us? Maybe you’ve found some special indications. So you can look at a person and see right away.

Bukalov: That’s not for interview. It’s a topic of a huge course we conduct. I can’t tell you, you see?

Interviewer: You can’t tell us a few words?

Bukalov: No, of course, not. Yeah, there are certain indicators. But that’s only a complex testing. You can’t dot on neither on visual nor test method. Only complex testing gives a chance to know the type of a person. Well, and “I can tell person’s type” is a scam. I can tell.

Interviewer: What do you think about self-identification? Is it possible?

Bukalov: It’s possible. In 40 cases out of 100.

Interviewer: Aha, I see.

Bukalov: According to our observations. Because people build completely different image in their minds. And all too often, they don’t see it. In this sense, visual analysis is much more effective. No matter what they think of themselves.

Interviewer: So an expert visually can tell more.

Bukalov: Yes and not one. At least 2 people carry out the testing. One expert—it’s a too great risk of a mistake. Two or three experts might minimize this mistake.

Interviewer: I see. We talked about masks. That people can wear socionical masks.

Bukalov: That’s a separate topic. Yes, when 2 experts are testing, one can look from a side and see person’s masks. And one person can’t see it. You see? It’s very simple.

Interviewer: Then let’s talk about Astrology. What do you think, is there a connection between Astrology and Socionics?

Bukalov: Well, since this issue was raised by different enthusiasts, we have a big data base, thousands of people. So, we just made a direct research. And it turned out that there’s no correlation. Types are born in any season, under any sign. Zero correlation. I don’t know if this article is available online, but it was published. It checked Zodiac signs and Chinese horoscope. There’s no correlation, zero.

Interviewer: But there’s information that astrological horoscopes are connected with…

Bukalov: No, there’s no connection. Astrologists haven’t managed to determine the type with a horoscope. Even famous Moscow astrologists, they came to our conference, tried to do something. And they couldn’t hit the mark once.

Interviewer: So, you don’t think that horoscopes influence personality?

Bukalov: That’s not science.

Interviewer: Good. Then tell me a little bit more about your most significant area of focus, about Management. Which relations work best in a big collective? And if there exists an already coherent collective, how do you build healthy relations there? What do you usually do?

Bukalov: Well, first, we look at the relations in this collective, how we can adjust them. And then we base on good relations and try to minimize bad by moving the person to the necessary psychological and business distance. If the person is required for the job but is in conflict with someone, then they should be seated in different rooms. Same happens when people share desks and traumatize each other by the sole look. So, we have to seat people in different rooms. Once we suggested that manager should…Two employees were sitting against each other, and as a result they traumatized each other. They were even shivering a bit. And we suggested to seat them in separate rooms, because they had an adjoining room. And so they did. But then they removed a door in this room, and on the opposite side there was a mirror, so they started seeing each other in the mirror. That was really funny. “Remove the mirror or seat this person elsewhere”. That was an accountant department, finance department. That’s a tiny example but such things cause neurosis and tension. And it’s not even people working together. If they work together, everything’s much worse. They get rattled, fight and shout at each other, make mistakes. And then they can take revenge. So, there’s a lot of such things.

I beg your pardon. We’ve been talking for a very long time.

Interviewer: Ok, we’ve actually discussed everything. The only thing I’d like to ask you… Maybe you have some studies about health which you can send me. I’d really appreciate it.

Bukalov: Please, send me a request via e-mail. Because I’ll take care of other matters and I’ll just forget about it. And later I’ll send you a list of articles, not only mine but others too.

Interviewer: Great, it’s a deal. Thank you very much!

Bukalov: You are welcome!

Interviewer: Thank you! I’ll get back to you later then.

Bukalov: Thank you.

Interview with Victor Prokofiev

Victor Prokofiev is the manager director of the Scientific Research Socionics Institute

This interview intended to investigate causalities on health due to relationship interaction under the perspective of Socionics.

Interview conducted by Anna Roman:


Interviewer: Good evening, Victor! Glad to see you again. Thank you for your time and this interview. I would like to ask you some questions about socionics.

Victor Prokofiev: Good evening! Ok, sure.

Interviewer: Why socionics promotes better social interaction, in your opinion?

Victor Prokofiev: This question is very interesting. I have just finished the webinar. We talked to the girl on the topic, how to interact with her boss, as their interpersonal relations are difficult, her boss is a type of ESTP, while she is ENFP. We had a very interesting conversation. We faced an existing set of stereotypes, that she had. The thing is, socionics does not tell us what to do, but gives us the additional tools that are important to use in any particular situations. With this girl we came to the conclusion that she needs to work on her role function, because several times during our dialogue she used such phrases as: “I am fighting,” “I am under pressure,” she acted by her role function and wondered why she had negative relationship with the boss. We came to the conclusion that she needs to use a basic function, which is located diagonally from the role function. The girl began to wonder how she can change her behaviour and systematize it. We concluded also, that she has to use a basic function, while organizing her work and when she is organizing the interaction with her boss, not only use this behavioural way during one project. It was surprising for her to know that the intuition of opportunities, good understanding of the options and situations, could be used in order to establish a positive contact with her boss, also to find new approaches to him, approaches to carrying out these projects. During the conversation this girl got some appeared fresh ideas and she was gone thinking of the changes. So that’s how socionics may help to promote better social interaction.

Interviewer: Very good example. Let’s talk about bad relationships and a bad social environment. Could it be harmful to one’s health, do you consider that connection true? How does the knowledge of Socionics help on that?

Victor Prokofiev: Definitely, bad social environment and the bad relationships, regardless of whether they are based on socionics or they are just personal, they have a strong negative impact on health. The intertype relationships themselves affect our cooperation. In this case, as there are personal qualities, but also each person has his typological features, all the relationships are different:

• interpersonal relations, where an important role is played by social development, education, etc.

• intertype relationships.

Intertype interaction is most clearly manifested in the long period of time by close contact. As an example, if the conflict relations progress quickly in a short time, then the conflictor might seem pleasant, delight, he might seem better (“He can do something that I can not do”). First impressions of the conflictor can be very positive. Another case, if we deal with conflictor for a long time and very close, then intertype relationships begin to appear. This interaction creates a situation where a person, regardless of his intentions, desires, will, begins to “step on the sore spots”, and presents the information in the most uncomfortable way, even painful way. Here, in fact, this is what leads to serious problems. When we spent another consulting session to the firm, in one of the laboratories an example of such cooperation was clearly manifested. Four people were in a very small office together, carried out a good job, their leader did not have claims to these employees. But the leader said that these people are sick very often. When we started working with them, we found out that one of them periodically visits hospitals, he even had gone through a second heart attack, three workers appeared to go on business trips, even without a special need. When we learned of the situation, we found out that there are very complex intertype relations between them. Being intelligent people, they never made up open conflicts, as well as they never allowed battering. All this resulted in the fact that it has affected their health – they started to feel sick. How did we help? We just gave some specific recommendations on how to divide those people for not to sit together, so they didn’t have to sit together for 8 hours in a row, looking at each other. We offered these people to move to different rooms. They continued their work separately from each other. After a while we got a feedback from them about how they became more calm, happier and how comfortable their work has become. That’s exactly one of the ways to solve the problems of bad social environment with knowledge of socionics.

Interviewer: That’s really interesting! When I talked to Mr. Reinin, we discussed Health groups and Bouquet groups and he told me about the experiments they conducted in hospitals in Saint-Petersburg. They studied the interaction of people in groups. Maybe you know more experiments or maybe you also conducted some of them in your Institute? Maybe you examined any health characteristics? Do you remember?

Victor Prokofiev: Unfortunately, it was not like this. We have our own direction, we focus more on Reinin small groups as the important practical tools to use Socionics. Regarding health, the only case where we actually watched it, was just our work with consulting companies. For now, we haven’t conducted any special experiments on health yet.

Interviewer: Interviewer: I see. Good! Well, if we talk about the “bouquet” groups, are all the four personality types needed to achieve a positive effect? Or maybe two or three of types would be enough?

Victor Prokofiev: I understand the question, but I will answer in a slightly different way. We are now focused on small groups within the family or in the company during consulting We pay attention to the fact that gathering a small group on a separate production, to find it within existing family – it is almost impossible, there is a very low probability. It is extremely difficult to collect all four types together. Groups tend to be of a completely random composition and an arbitrary number. Victor Gulenko examined the integral type working groups. We now actively and successfully use his technique [1], which allows you to show the goal of the group, what is this particular group oriented to, regardless of the members’ amount. This may be a “working group”, “educational team” and other “working team”, that is usually aimed at a specific task. No matter how many people are in this group – 4, 8, 15. A leader can communicate directly with the team as a single person of a certain integral type. Alternatively, if the team communicates with the staff of the adjacent units, it turns out 2 of the integral type, which communicate with each other. Globally, it works well. There is even a type of integrated cities, integral type of countries, but it is associated with the analysis of the mentality of territorial units. With this approach, the analysis of the interaction of cities and countries can also be seen in the way of certain socionic laws.

Interviewer: What is the integral type, explain, please?

Victor Prokofiev: Integral type is considered to be very simple, but it works very effectively. It’s important to analyse the group dichotomies: how many Sensing are there in the group, hoe many Intuitive, etc. If there are more Sensing – then they prevail, put a tick for Sensing. Look how many extroverts / introverts, rational / irrational, logic / ethics. Interestingly, we arranged not only an external consultant, we also conducted the internal consulting at our Institute. We have a turnover, every time we change the composition of the team, we find the integral type of our team. We realized that it works so effective that sometimes we set ourselves the task to pick any specific type of person to change a little bit the integral type of staff depending on our task. And yet, very interesting observation: when the integral type eroded at least one dichotomy, for example, sensing and intuitive an equal amount, the team begins to work less, problems arise. It turns out, a complete analogy with the fact that when a person has type blurred (it is difficult to diagnose), then the person has a psychological problem. The same happens to an integral type, when it is washed away – there are problems. These are the observations we have. And as regards health, we still, unfortunately, don’t have a serious research, probably before now it was not very important.

Interviewer: I see! Maybe you examine people in a relationship? For example, separately conflictors or duals? Maybe you have studied how these relationships affect the overall emotional or physical condition of the person? I have information that the conflicting relationships can lead to serious mental disorders, neurosis, etc. Do you know how it was observed and revealed?

Victor Prokofiev: We affirm and practice shows that there is no bad relationship, “one just needs to know how to prepare them”. There is a certain table, which Igor Kalinauskas [2] prepared, it is very interesting, he put each intertype relationships in line with some problems (tasks). Interestingly, there is a certain hierarchy of intertype relations: best – dual, then the activation, then half-dual, then the custom, but this hierarchy is rigidly tied to a specific task. What do you think, to which task?

Interviewer: Comfortable communication, probably, am I right?

Victor Prokofiev: Comfort and relaxation. That is a hierarchy to build a “classical” family. If we want to come and relax in a family, the most comfortable relationship line up for this hierarchy. But if people have a different task, the hierarchy changes. We have clear examples of when the conflicting people (two conflictors) celebrate their golden wedding. If you look at the table of Kalinauskus, it is the task of selecting and social prestige, improve their social status. These relationships have helped to make both became professors, doctors of sciences, husband worked for some time in the ministry for a good post. They both belong to the same social level; both of them were very successful. (here the communication was broken)

Interviewer: We stopped on intertype relations.

Victor Prokofiev: Yes. In this case, we just looked at the relationship of conflict which contribute to the growth of social status. We are very fond of socionics, especially me, for consistency. Everything has a logical explanation. It is seen very well through the features of these relations. Who is a dual? This is a person who “sticks his shoulder” at a time when the territory of the family or team invading by someone negatively, by an aggressor. What is interesting for the dual relationship is that all 8 functions are contact there. This leads to the fact that in any case of the negative invasion, any contact function switches on and therefore is becomes less vulnerable for one of the partners. After all, the most difficult problems are not only with the function of pain, but also with a base, reference, restrictive functions. They are all noble functions. Accordingly, next to the dual we have some kind of protection. Some negative aggressor appears, and dual has already stood by its pin functions and reflected the negative, while our noble features were not involved. Accordingly, the dual need to lean on in difficult times.

And what can we say about conflictor? When we make a mistake, any awkward movement, a conflictor immediately reports us about it. That’s a well-known fact, that any awkward movements are usually done on weak functions. And if by weak features you do something wrong, poor, conflictor immediately indicates a mistake and pays attention to it. He says, how it should be done, as a fact this way of communication is definitely very painful. But the interesting fact is that if a person wants comfort in a relationship, he is pleased when his dual protects him against negative influences. And if a person has the goal or will to actively move forward, he wants to be criticised, he wants to grow, to take a step. He receives the valuable criticism of his wrong actions. If he wants to promote the development of himself, how he will react to the criticism?

Interviewer: Interviewer: Calm. He will be glad.

Victor Prokofiev: Of course, calm! He understands that it is painful, uncomfortable. But this is important. For example, what a coach sais during the training session? “Don’t look for a comfort here. Upgrade to the new level is only possible in discomfort. We must get out of our comfort zone in order to reach a new level. ” It is clear what conflictor gives us, huh? If we want to grow rapidly, to correct the mistakes, even if it is painful, it means that these relations are convenient, useful for us. And if we want comfort, emotional rest – the best for us are dual relationships, of course.

Interviewer: Let’s summarize: in some cases, conflicting relations may be considered as toxic, harmful, right? And in some case, they, on the contrary, can be productive and useful?

Victor Prokofiev: That’s right. In a relationship, when a person wants to develop himself rapidly, get quick feedback on all the mistakes, conflictual relationship is exactly where he can get it. If a person wants in a relationship to rest and relax, receive energy, cheerfulness, then he needs dual relationship.

Interviewer: Are all the socionic types of quietly accept criticism, even if it is productive? Or there are people who do not take criticism in any form?

Victor Prokofiev: Well, is not really related to socionics, it is more character reasons here. It is our personal will. We’re talking about some people: “They are strong-willed people, achieving, making their own way” – it is not related to socionics. These strong-willed people, if they want to achieve something, they choose their own specific way. So then criticism is just one of the ways for them which is uncomfortable, it is painful but effective. If a person has a purpose – he goes and gets it.

Interviewer: Is there any relationship that for any purpose would be devastating? What kind of relationship will be damaging in any way? How was it discovered?

Victor Prokofiev: I can not say, to be honest, we are not simply studied the table of Kalinauskas, we actively use it. This table helps us to solve many problems in couples relations, consultation with parents and children, family, etc. When we consider not only the relationship, but human purpose, it turns the output on the solution of problems. When does the problem occur? It actually occurs when the real goals are different from the goals written in this table. When a person’s goal with these goals differ – we have problems, but if the goals are the same – it works. It is tested repeatedly; we use it in our practice of professional consultations.

Interviewer: Ok, I see. I have questions regarding the investigation and examination of vital signs: heart rate, pulse, whether such studies have been conducted?

Victor Prokofiev: No, this is not carried out yet. We studied in our own different way. Of course, we have thought about this, but not for health, but the things that are natural. We see that the type accompanies a person throughout his life almost from infancy. The certain symptoms could be seen and determined from the childhood, 2 months old kids. For all 25 years of practice, Tatiana Nikolaevna (*Mrs Prokofieva, Victors’ wife), we have not seen examples type changes. That means that the type is not just somewhere typed in the process of life, but laid genetically, physiologically. Thus, each person has a mental skeleton. The task of the nearest future – to find where this skeleton is to which he attached the body’s physiological characteristics, it is interesting and honourable task. Accordingly, it can lead us to the quick diagnostics, for example, donated blood – identified type. We just know where it is. In this regard, we have set ourselves the task to run. We are motivated to find the certain psycho-physiological parameters with the ability to rapid diagnostics.

Interviewer: Are there examples?

Victor Prokofiev: Yes, but not here. We still do not do it, but now there are lots of brain experiments studied the right and left hemispheres. We haven’t studied that, but nevertheless it is a fact: there are right-handed and left-handed people, totally different in the points of brain activity, psychologists say that it is innate. Maybe, if you understand how to appear lefties and righties, perhaps because somewhere nearby will see the asymmetry of the psyche and the personal type.

Interviewer: That is clear. But how can you quickly recognize that the relationships with the person are conflict and that this particular person is a conflictor to you? How can you determine this for yourself? You start to get nervous, for example, or there is somehow more impact on one’s health, well-being?

Victor Prokofiev: Yes, I understand the question. Here it is necessary to be familiar with socionics, their model, clearly understand what exactly creates discomfort. If the discomfort goes by your strong features, it is likely that it’s something personal. And if there is a negative on weak functions here intertype relationships are likely to be the cause of negativity. Definitely, knowing the weak features here and seeing how a person submits the information on them, you can decide with what it intertype relationships, decide how to proceed and how to communicate.

Interviewer: There is a lot of information about the visual identity on your website. There is a certain set of attributes that describe a particular type. How do you think it is possible to trust such descriptions, and knowing them, to determine the type more likely? At the same time dealing with it, of course.

Victor Prokofiev: Of course, we use external features for rapid diagnosis.

Interviewer: Is rapid diagnosis usually trustworthy?

Victor Prokofiev: Not really and not always. Rapid tests are mostly not reliable. Here, with the amount of human experience increases diagnostic reliability. But reliability is still low. Why do we use it? Because we use socionics as another tool to influence people. If we are dealing with a business partner, a competitor, we always have a set of own personal tools without socionics, that are useful and work in varying degrees of probability. Not every tool is suitable for everyone. If you want to use exactly the same approach to the socionic diagnostics instruments, it is important to understand that we do not have to determine the type 100%, we simply pretend the type and then use any socionic tool. What may be the answer?

Interviewer: Probably it is more reliable to check the type experimentally, isn’t it?

Victor Prokofiev: Yes, or we have to see what works or what doesn’t work. If our tactics worked out well, what should we do?

Interviewer: We continue to communicate this way as we go.

Victor Prokofiev: Yes, we continue in the same spirit, use this pattern of behaviour. And if it did not work?

Interviewer: Try something new?

Victor Prokofiev: Exactly, we may also try something from the social sphere,  try a new hypothesis. In fact, the express-diagnostics gives us a hypothesis. Either we go to such simple methods as a smile, questioning, active listening, and so on. There are many methods that always work. Therefore, if you do not put at the forefront, as a panacea, communication on the basis of socionics, you can use any tool. Another question is, if there is a socionic consultation, we give a person some practical recommendations for the correct definition of his type. Visual identification is important here – this is the initial hypothesis, which then needs to be verbalized. So, according to our observations, in approximately 70% of the causes, a skilled person may determine personality type by simply the visual identification. Therefore, reliability of visual identification is about 70% for an experienced person. On our website you may find a gallery of socionic types. (* Http: //
One young man recently protested: “How it is possible that people belonging to the same type are so different?” But they are really different visually, of course. Appearance provides just 70% of information, although it is very important to know, where to look. There are people who come to us, being diagnosed somewhere in other schools before. Sometimes it’s really curious. We diagnose one type, and he is previously defined in the other type, for example, ISFJ. We ask that person: “What were the main arguments to this identification?” And he replied – “I’ve been told I’m fat and kind, so ISFJ!”. This is visual data, but once you look closer, you may see the important peculiarities of the behaviour, that’s why visual identification is not enough. We always accent that person – is not a type!. Recently I had an article just on this topic. This article tells that the person it not the type, as there are so many other factors. All in all, express-diagnosis is able to give us initial hypothesis.

Interviewer: I’ve heard the opinion that people of the same type can be very different. By the way, here’s an interesting question, I think many of the listeners will be interested: what relationships are usually between people of the same type?

Victor Prokofiev: People of the same type always understand each other very well. This is the best attitude for a couple of “teacher – pupil”. Teacher conveys information so that the teachings of her best perceive. “Parent – Child” – is also a good attitude. This is a very good relationship for the transmission of information.

Interviewer: And what about family relationships?

Victor Prokofiev: This is a question point. There are people, developing and evolving, others are progressing slower or not developing at all. If people do not develop, they quickly become bored. If your partner (of the same type) doesn’t make progress – you will know his actions in advance as well as his thoughts and behaviour, it becomes boring.

Interviewer: What do you think, how reliable and correct is self-diagnosis?

Victor Prokofiev: Here are 2 important conditions: how well a person knows himself and evaluates his actions, and the second condition – how serious and deep he knows socionics. No doubt that the best diagnosis – is an expert diagnosis. Let me give you a simple example. Man is asked what he would do in some situation. He will answer one way. But when he is asked about the previous situations like this, it would appear that he behaved quite differently. Why socionic tests can’t be trustworthy? Because people often unconsciously say “I would have done so.” Unlikely, a qualified expert after the first reply, would rather request a clarification: “Tell us more”. Non-verbal signs are always taken into account: smiling, closing position, curve, body language. Sometimes a person says “Yes” by words, but all his body sais “No”. That’s what I can say about the self-diagnosis. If two main conditions are met, then the person can very accurately determine his type.

Interviewer: I know the cases when person passes socionic test and the results are consistent with his own identity. He finds himself in the description of the result of the test. Does it mean that using the test really helps to accurately determine the type?

Victor Prokofiev: Would you like one more example? One woman studied socionics, and came to us not long ago. We have determined her to ethics. We talk about ethics after the diagnosis, she did not listen and even did not accept the arguments. What happened in the end? She said: “I can not be ethics, because I fight with my husband and I beat my children.” That woman knows herself, reading the type ESTP, and she sees herself through the type ESTP. Most descriptions yet have very many mistakes. Because there is a lot of socially acceptable and socially unacceptable. Does the normal person fight?

Interviewer: Of course, no. It depends on the nature of education, of temperament. Character…

Victor Prokofiev: Even ESTP understands at the level of volitional sensory, power, prestige, but it does not mean that he has to fight. There is a description about INFJ girls. This is a girl who stands at school at the window, says humanitarian topics, never contradicts the teachers… You see, some descriptions require further development.

Interviewer: Do you think that it is possible to harmonize relationships in the existing team, family or work? How to arrange them properly?

Victor Prokofiev: I’ll start far a distance. In the GRTC (* Note – here meaning “NII Gagarin Cosmonaut Training Center» / Russian State Organization «Gagarin Research & Test Cosmonaut Training Center»
a lot of socionists worked there. We are familiar with the person who was responsible for the medical center, socionist, he appeared at our conferences. We were also at the conference in the GRTC. Socionics is used there, but no creates the special teams of cosmonauts according to the socionics. You know? It is very important. The close interaction for a long time. Astronauts stay together in the closed place for years, and in a confined space the intertype relationships occur very well. But, at the same time, teams are always appointed by the Kremlin. The same thing happens with the American astronauts. We also communicate with them at the conference. They also don’t form teams based on socionics, as the teams are usually formed by government.

Interviewer: Yes, but I remember, Gregory Rainin told me about your common visit to GRTC, and how you saw his book “Secrets of the type.” He told me that Socionics is actively used in space

Victor Prokofiev: Yes, exactly, now I will explain. Socionics is not used for the formation of the team. But when the team is already there, appointed by the Kremlin or other higher-level authorities, socionics starts to be used. In what way socionics is used? It may give recommendations to show where the pain points are for the particular type, also which topics are better not to discuss; what purpose better not to solve together. Certain tasks are performed separately, then combined. There are things that better not to be done together; Some goals are important to not put together. It all depends on intertype relations. Those recommendations will increase the quality of life, definitely.
Interviewer: Does it mean that for family relationships or business it works the same way? In any relationship you can use socionics like that, right?

Victor Prokofiev: Absolutely. Socionics shows us what to get around and where to “lay straw”. There are relationships that can not be broken. Recently there was a situation where mother and daughter came, being in conflict relationship. In this case, there was a question about the relationship. One of the conclusions was not to keep daughter all the time with her. The family has enough money to travel, they also have a grandmother, and of course father. And her mother was trying to solve the problem of excessive heed, over-control of each step. Such close interaction only aggravated relations. In such a relationship should there be the scope of the interaction. We gave mother recommendations to remote interaction. As a result, it helped.

Interviewer: How can these (conflict) relationships affect the human psyche?

Victor Prokofiev: Very negative. Control relations have the worst influence, for example. I have just finished a webinar, we discussed the theory of evolution, where socionics related to the theory of Erikson (* Note – The theory of Erikson, he singled out the 8 stages of development, 7 personality crises which people pass. During the lifetime each person passes 7 serious crises at every stage, working out a certain function of model A. If a person worked out the stage well, he doesn’t receive a psychological trauma, he calmly proceeds to the next step. There is a danger for a child, if his parents do not take into account the inter-type relations, problems arise. And coming back to logic, we know that all the problems have their roots in childhood. If in childhood some of the feature had not been properly worked, the problem has not been solved yet. “Exam is not passed” for a child. Conventionally, the problem is not solved.
Interviewer: And what are these 7 crises? Are they all the same or all different for each type?

Victor Prokofiev: 7 crises according to the Erickson theory, they are the same for all, regardless of type. Practice shows that each stage (of 8 steps) corresponds to 8 functions of model A. The first suggestive function differs credulity. For example, 1 point up to one year worked out the trust or distrust of the world. If a person has received this year’s balance sheet, that is, there is no absolute confidence, there is no absolute confidence, than there is a balance, one goes forward. The first function is developed and closed. And such suggestive function is different for each of the 16 individual types.

Interviewer: That is such a function for every type, but each type has its own, right?

Victor Prokofiev: Yes, that’s right.

Interviewer: Can you give any example of such crises due to the types? How did you learn?

Victor Prokofiev: Tatiana Nikolaevna studied that more, actually. The same theory of development was investigated by Ermak, but on a different basis. Accordingly, there is another snap, something that is not in vain this observation appears, continue to actively start using. When we are immersed in human childhood, it is effective. We see the problem. A person comes with a problem, we begin to understand, based on the fact, on what function the problem comes from, we will logically fall into that time where and at what point the problem could arise. It’s like psychoanalysis, psychoanalyst catches the root of the problem from the conversations. Same happens with socionics. We simply define a period when there was a problem, and in this period we find out what happened that time. And then we have the cause of the problem. And when there is a cause of the problem – it is half of the solution.
What we like in Socionics – a quick exit to the cause of the problem. When there are reasons, psychological and socionic methods allow us to solve this problem quickly.

Interviewer: Yes, but here it is possible to identify inner personal problems. Do all the crises occur in childhood?

Victor Prokofiev: Not only. Some of them occur in childhood, adolescence, midlife crisis in 30 years. I can not say for sure, there is an article, I’ll send you the link.

Interviewer: Do you think there is a connection between socionics and astrology?

Victor Prokofiev: Well, some sort of connection probably is.

Interviewer: Have you studied this question?

Victor Prokofiev: Interestingly, long time ago Tatiana, when she had just started to be engaged in socionics, was joined by Alexandra UDALOVA. (* Note – Alexander UDALOVA – astrologist) They had a conscientious job – she talked about astrology, and Tatiana told her about socionics, that this was an interesting exchange of information. She was a professional astrologist. What unites these two disciplines? As a professional astrologist does her astrological analysis, in some moments it intersects with the type. It should be clearly understood that every science has its limits; here it is the framework of their tools, they are too limited. Therefore, some features of the character were crossing that sees astrologist and Socionics. There were no specific studies, however, they should have been done. But they parted ways finally. They had some joint projects, such as: geometry of intertype relations, algebra of intertype relations. By the way, they started to work together on Kalinauskas table. Some of the problems were studied together.

Interviewer: Do you have this table on the website?

Victor Prokofiev: Yes, we have. But there is such a thing “Socionic masks” In situations of a single person interaction is manifested as a different type of situations and for certain purposes. This may be a game, because every person has all the 16 types in varying degrees. Even Ausra said that it is important to work through all the 16 types. This suggests that all people may include weak functions. This is a useful role. “Now I want to look for this man as I am ENFJ. I can simulate this type for my own purposes, but for a long time I can’t, I only prepared to play this role. ” It’s useful. But if a person has a psychological problem, he hangs up the mask for a long time, and he does not remove the mask in the evening, this is called “an adherent mask”, it is a problem. Person, instead of having to switch to the strong function, works as a different type with weak functions. Well, ok, somehow he learned this lesson, learned how to play the role, but success will be low. And if there is a mask – there is a second type. There is also a real type. The two types are obtained intertype relationships. We take a table and look what Kalinauskas tells us: we check the type of the mask, we also check the real type – and we see the resulting problem.

Interviewer: How do you determine a mask? Is it possible to visually identify the mask?

Victor Prokofiev: It is possible to determine by express-diagnosis. If a person is wearing a mask, diagnostics would show it clearly.

Interviewer: How adherent mask is psychologically dangerous to the person?

Victor Prokofiev: Well, it indicates the presence of psychological problems.

Interviewer: What threatens to a person, if he never removes this mask? And he doesn’t behave naturally in his type?

Victor Prokofiev: It is a psychological problem. There are unnecessary negative emotions. Man wrongly held any situation, with the highest losses. And so, if he behaved inside of his type according to his strong features of his type, he could emerge victorious, with minimal losses.

Interviewer: When do you need to adjust to a different type? Where is the line between maintaining a comfortable behaviour within their type and those where you have to adjust to a different type?

Victor Prokofiev: Where is the line … Well, it all depends on the goals. If we want to get something from the person, we arrange under it. But this does not mean that we are always going to be in this state. For example, in collaboration ESTP and ENFJ information is transferred difficultly, because it goes from the base to the role functions. Here, if the manager knows socionics, he knows that it is desirable not to give a lot of information. And if he does not know socionics, he thinks that everyone else is as well to perceive and understand the information, as he did.

Interviewer: But you have mentioned the professional guidance, still remember, we talked about how to choose the right sport. Tell me more, how important is the right choice? Or what is the positive influence of the right choice. Are there examples?

Victor Prokofiev: Very simple. This is a very interesting question. When we define the type of person, then we start to talk to him, we see those who are already on a thought, pondering, “and I did it already, I can remember.” If a man develops himself, we simply explain to him his unconscious action. Let’s say, we “allow” to do so and so. Sometimes, a person forbids himself to do something, maybe environment tells him “It is wrong, so you must do this and that”. And there are often questions such as: “I can get money for what I really love, really?”. People often think that we are all the same, consequently, we all have to do the same things in life.

Interviewer: So you pick the type of activity that is as comfortable as possible?

Victor Prokofiev: Yes, or do we just say that if someone likes his work, he just needs to change the priorities within the job description, change daily routine. Job Description consists from the list of works. We need to try something to pay more attention to, and something – to pay less attention to. And you have to see what would happen to the demand for your work, whether people work with great pleasure. Here the knowledge of socionics purely helps. And in fact, it turns out great. After all, people begin to work with great pleasure. Sometimes people change their position, profession. If you have gained the rich experience, than dramatically change everything from that point is not a good choice, it does not make sense. But to change your behaviour, change priorities – this is what really useful.

Interviewer: What about sports? As it is important to choose the right kind of sports according to your type?

Victor Prokofiev: I guess I would not say so clearly about the sport. My favourite sport can be anything. But what is important here: there is a division between sensible and decisive (feature) – I and IV quadras. Decisive will get more pleasure from extreme sports. Extreme Sports bring them pleasure. And sensible (II and III quadras), on the contrary, do not feel very comfortable with extreme sport. They are more suitable for such kinds of sports where there is a comfortable body-work, like stretching, yoga – quiet, designed to comfort, health and pleasant feelings. Unlike extreme sports, where the emotions, determination, achievement of results are important.

Interviewer: And let’s come back to the health subject, is there anything left? Anything, that we haven’t discussed yet? Perhaps new studies, interesting experiments?

Victor Prokofiev: Well, I say, all is told already)) I understand that you want to highlight the connection between health and socionics. To sum up, a few points are important here, as I said: the negative impact of some conflict intertype relations, about the sport, and that in the family, where it is impossible to separate, the adverse intertype relationship, it is important to follow the recommendations on the distance. It is important to know in what ways which respect the distance.
Interviewer: Are there any reports on these topics?

Victor Prokofiev: There is an article on consulting, analysis of groups with complex intertype relationships, just linked to the health. And as we have decided to issue them. At this point we decide these questions at the consultation: how to avoid problems, give recommendations. But we never describe, because it is personal questions. But we have a lot of other information.

Interviewer: Maybe you could briefly tell me about your report on Reinin threats? What is your report about?

Victor Prokofiev: The report is now very necessary, because the situation with the experiments in socionics very poor. A lot of observations. A lot of theory. But this is a global scientific experiment. Talanov had tried, he developed multiple-question test, that evaluates a lot of different information. But if you do not lay the socionic concepts and wider, and the results are not as specific and wide.
Talanov laid a lot, many things, on the basis of the identified typology. But, in our opinion, it does not correspond to Socionics.
And we conducted, in our view, a very serious experiment, a great science experiment, a lot of the characteristics and requirements for psychological experiments we performed. And now, we began to publish. There’s a lot of material. The problem for many years was unaffordable. Over the years I have learned a psychological terminology. Now we are giving accurate results of our psychological experiment, consider Reinin threats.

Interviewer: I would love to read the report once done, could you send it please?

Victor Prokofiev: Yes, of course! I will do that for sure.

Interviewer: Okay. I will not detain you longer, because it’s late night already. Thank you very much for such an interesting conversation! We are waiting for new information! Thank you once again, Victor!

Victor Prokofiev: Thank you very much, too! All the best


List of publications related to the subject:

VG Prokofiev. “Layer cake” or the crisis in socionics. Cosmology and Astrophysics personality psychology. – 2006. – N 3. Management and Personnel: Psychology of Management, Socionics and Sociology. – 2010 – of N 7.
VG Prokofiev. Bird in the hand, or is it always need a full diagnosis of TIM. , Cosmology and Astrophysics personality psychology “, 4 2008
EAT. MARKET, VG Prokofiev. The natural style of communication and expression in classical works. , Cosmology and Astrophysics personality psychology. – 2010 – of N 2.
TN Prokofiev VG Prokofiev. Research Institute of Socionics, 2008

TN Prokofiev VG Prokofiev, AS Devyatkin, PE Cleopas. Features of the educational approach in the Institute of Socionics and our competitive advantages 2008
TN Prokofiev VG Prokofiev. Socionic approach to improve the efficiency of teaching and educational work of the teacher, the school psychologist. Management and Personnel: Psychology of Management, Socionics and Sociology. – 2008 – of N 4.
TN Prokofiev VG Prokofiev, NM Shifrin. Why me all the time? 2009, Cosmology and Astrophysics personality psychology. – 2010. – N 1. Management and Personnel: Psychology of Management, Socionics and Sociology. – 2011 – of N 4.
TN Prokofiev VG Prokofiev. Why do we not develop communication? Algebra intertype relations 2009 Management and Personnel: Psychology of Management, Socionics and Sociology. – 2010 – 8 of N
TN Prokofiev VG Prokofiev, AS Devyatkin, Y. Isaev. Methods of determining the psychological type of pre-school age children. , Cosmology and Astrophysics personality psychology. – 2010 – of N 4.
GA Malina, VG Prokofiev. “Finding yourself. , Cosmology and Astrophysics personality psychology.” – 2011 – of N 3.

Personality Masks in Socionics context

by Anna Roman:

Socionic Masks: How do they help us? How do they harm us?

Our society is arranged in such way that, facing any certain life situations, people put on «masks» with not always a conscious purpose in order to be presented to others in a more favorable light. In this article we are talking about main advantages and drawbacks of using “masks”. In what situations they hinder people, bringing inconvenience and discomfort; and when do they enhance the interaction process with the environment, helping to achieve certain goals.

Igor Kalinauskas associated intertype relationships with concrete personal psychological problems. If a person has a “mask” that means that there are 2 types coexisting in one person, then we can say that between the real type and the mask there are also specific intertype relationships, which also indicate the presence of similar unresolved personal problem.

Mask is a formation of a false image of “yourself to others” in order to suppress the increasing aggressiveness and hide the inner problems.

It is possible to make controlled adjustments to this false image of “yourself to others”, significantly increasing the effectiveness of your social interaction.

If you look at it from the practical side, we can see that the “mask” can both help and hinder our communication and interaction with people.


Positive impact of “masks”.

Short-time wearing a “mask” could be very helpful. It can be either unconscious or conscious, especially when a person creates the appearance of any other socionic type.

A “mask” can be used in conjunction with the boss or subordinates in order to make yourself delightful to others, also it may be used in negotiations with business partners, in acting, in diplomacy and politics, and also in private life.


Negative impact of “masks”.

Let’s turn to the scenario with the negative effect of “mask”, in other words, the unconscious and long-time wearing of a mask. Solving certain problems in life, person behaves as a representative of a different socionic type, sometimes not even realizing it. It happens frequently, that the “mask” being worn overmuch, adheres to a true socionic type.

This phenomenon leads to the following consequences.

Firstly, that could be seen on arrival at the new place of work, first appearance in a new company or even on a first date, the first impression of the person is incorrectly determined by his mask, not his real type. But after a while the real type begins to appear clearly. As a result, work turns out to be hard at the new place, moreover management’s expectations are not met, which leads to frustration and even more unpleasant consequences.

Secondly, the person who is focused on personal development and uses his knowledge in socionics, but has a certain “mask” – he usually deals with his own type very slowly and hardly. There is confusion between real type and the “mask”, which leads to the fact that people tend to consider themselves even some third type. Unsolved problems remain, furthermore, the new problems arise.

Let’s analyse the example, when the “mask” hinder and harm us. For example, a “Controlled (under control) mask” is associated with debt problems, making persons’ nature facile, sensitive and attackable. It seems that these people are hardly aware of their personal interests and are willing to sacrifice themselves to please the society.


How to determine a “mask”? Main attributes.


Person in such mask tries to create an image of self-sufficient and “standing on his own two feet” – he does everything by himself, he does not need anyone’s help. He can not afford to let his inner child live in piece, therefore for him it is extremely difficult to relax. Consequently, he is overloaded and needs to have rest and comfort. Even with the stable image of self-sufficiency, in reality he is a very dependent person, constantly in need of support, attention, reinforcement, clinging to the other, but he is afraid of admitting it. Sometimes he would likely create a sexy image, whereas in fact there is a problem with the private relationship. He is afraid of loneliness most of all.


In the case of Activation mask a person’s image resembles a “vagabond”: he has his own, personal value system and he does not care about society and public opinion. He does not see and doesn’t accept his own problems, flatly denies them.


The image in this case is associated with the removal from the base of real personality. This is offset by the desire for perfection, the intellectual development. For the man in the Mirror mask urgent problem of the active delivery of results into society is evident, as well as the problem of self-realization. But as long as he is wearing this mask, he won’t succeed. Mirror mask symbolizes the image of a strict teacher. Person wearing this mask shows to the others the scope of their activity and creativity, which needs to be improved in his opinion. He gives the piece of advice absolutely automatically and without special efforts.


Self-assessment of his quality depends on the attitude towards him, and the work is carried out in the language of the subjective logic. There is a desire to act within their own subjective ideals. A person in such mask will certainly begin to compete with others.

Illusion (Mirage)

In the case of Illusion mask person quickly comes to realize that the favorable external appearance is a key to success. He plays a role in life, as an actor plays a role on the stage. He creates an “Illusion” of himself. And this role limits his freedom, it blocks his natural behaviour. This mask symbolizes the problem of inner freedom.


Person in this mask tirelessly demonstrates his superiority on the relevant aspects. Superego mask is characterized with blocking individuality, duty to be perfect executive, imposed programs that do not meet the real personality, makes this person socially obliged to wear a mask. This mask is usually used for social survival, external success and further progress in the society. It blocks strong sociotype function and inhibits the development of abilities. This mask is recognized better than others.


Reflective desire to explain to another person, how incorrect and wrong is usual for this person way of life. Constantly argues, defends his point of view, but in a very respectful way. As well as the Activation mask, Quasi-Identity mask symbolizes the internal struggle, the rejection of common values, completely dependent on other people’s opinions.


He tends to look mobilized, but actually lowered his tone, as he has a deep problem. He looks at the things “from the other side”. Characterized by the phrases: “Never do that! It’s absolutely wrong! Nobody needs that!”. Behavior sometimes reminds a “self-confident teenager”.


Lack of frankness. Person may seem selfish; in fact, it is not always like that. He is trying to be like you, sharing interests. When it comes to business, these relationships can be quite fruitful, if the partners share interests. But if their common interests diverge, the relationship can be harsh, unpleasant, annoying.


The presence of many thoughts about the past is typical, as well as about the pleasant moments that are left in the past. Unexpected behavior is also typical. Person in such mask helps to sort out the problem, and if he is restricted just with theoretical discussion, it is perfectly possible to communicate with him. Half-Dual may surprise you with unexpected act, after which the relations will deteriorate sharply.


Person in such mask aims to have an invulnerable image, always ready to fight. But deep inside such person may feel useless, worthless. In this mask person is unable to exercise his own work and realize his mission. Sometimes the presence of a Conflict mask is manifested in the inability make the hard choices or decisions in a significant situation.


Image of a person wearing Requester mask – self-confidence. He seems to project strength and power. He aspires to seem special and important. In real life, spending a lot of effort on this image, he usually forgets to keep the promises and doesn’t take responsibility for decision-making. Most of people in such masks are impatient and intolerant.

Characteristically arrogant behavior, increased requirements. mask of the Requester – person pretends to be a Big Boss, he gives instructions to everybody, even though he is not really ready to bear responsibility.


Image of a dependable “yes man”, trustworthy executive provokes great expectations to him in human environment. However, in reality such person in a Respondent mask has to make great efforts to fulfil his obligations and to save the face. There is panic and fear to break the promise, or remove the obligation, to loose the control of situation. The other extreme line – he moves beyond the obligations, showing unwillingness to take responsibility for the result of his activity.


Controller mask – excessive sense of entitlement.

“Controller” symbolizes an older relative, to whom you are liable to account all the time. Quite simple requirements: report, get the evaluation of what you’ve done, come back later to report. Controller always force others to be responsible, learn to report, obtain an estimate, take it seriously and to improve his performance, depending on the evaluation. “Controller” is waiting for confirmation of his significance and self-esteem.

The controller causes the unconscious sense of uncertainty of the others.

Controlled (Under Control)

Here is a verbatim quote of INTJ, being in the “Controlled mask”: “I want to please everybody and I want everything to be fine. In any company I feel the need to keep the perfect relationship no matter what. It is so hard when people are bad to you… ”

“Controlled (under control) mask” also interferes its owner to establish true confidence to family and loved ones. This comes from the confusion in the suggestive function. It is extremely difficult for such people to relax and unwind. They think that they can not spend time for themselves and must dedicate to others. “I can not spend time on myself, as I have too many obligations to my mother in law and relatives. And even if there is free time, as I am on my maternity leave, I have to spend all my time on my child”- that’s exactly how this problem has been expressed by already mentioned girl (INTJ) as a reason why she can’t look after herself and she really wanted to.

The clear attributes of such “Controlled mask” are such words as “have to”, “must” and “commitment”. This is how unilateral sense of duty is expressed among people with “Controlled mask”.

Such behaviour leads to the serious problems, for example, psychological pressure, a difficulty to find inner freedom.


Below there is a list of “masks” matching with the specific problems.

Identity (No mask) The lack of “mask” demonstrates that person is easy-going and reliable. This person is honest enough with himself and others, he’s not trying to play the role of someone else, he keeps being adequate to himself.
Dual “Dual mask” is related to the problem of recreation: person needs a rest, comfort, relaxation, maintenance and support.
Activation “Mask” is related to the rejection of the idea that there is a problem and that it should be solved. No motivation to solve problems.
Mirror “Mirror mask” is associated with the problems of realization of the individual, the realization of his creativity, active delivery of results.
Business “Business mask” is associated with the problem of work: the feeling that the workload prevents to live the full life. The difficulties in the organization of work, allocation of priorities. “Business mask” is also associated with the problem of a long, usually unsuccessful, job search.
Illusion (Mirage) “Illusion mask” is associated with the problem of inner freedom: inability to make a separate step, tension, escape from reality into the world of illusions. A person has accumulated his inner tension, with whom he does not know how to cope. As a result –  he creates a tense atmosphere for the other; he runs away to the world of illusions: computer communication, replacing real life, or computer games, that hide his feeling of being lost; feeling of inconsistence with reality.
Superego “Superego mask” is associated with a survival problem. Person does not live freely, he “survives”, he does what he “must”, which is not comparable with his forces and capabilities. No labour / relaxation balance.
Opposition “Repayment mask” is related to the domestic problems. This persons’ life is not enough organized to rest properly.
Quasi-Identities This mask shows the problem of the struggle (with someone – people, circumstances), person takes this fight more serious than he should, or simply this struggle is relevant at the moment. In any case, the presence of “mask” makes life difficult, harder to concentrate; it becomes impossible to choose ones’ own, not someone else’s resources to solve the problems.
Conflictor “Conflictor mask” says about the problem of choice. Person is not inclined to make a clear choice for a long time remained in a state of oscillation, thereby making life difficult for himself and others. This mask also tells about the internal personal conflict.
Relationship ” Relationship mask” is associated with the problem of self-affirmation. That means, that previously this person hasn’t learned how to assert himself, he hasn’t mastered enough his methods of approval his position among the surrounding people, so now he is forced to act against his type, breaking himself to “cover up” the weaknesses, he also has to be presented to others and even to himself (and, currently – in first of all) as like the other person.
Half-Dual ” Half-Dual mask” is associated with learning problems.
Controller “Controller mask” is related to the debt problem (such a person feels superior with the sense of entitlement to others). He considers himself entitled to impose strict requirements to the people, without being self-rigorous.
Controlled “Controlled mask” is related to ones’ inability to ask from his debtors with a greater propensity to repay debts than to ask others. The man believes that “he owes everybody” “conscience is the best controller”. He may face serious problems at the workplace associated with this inability to require subordinates for execution and full compliance of work.
Requester “Requester mask” is associated with the problem of avoiding responsibility for the execution of decisions. People tend to make their own decisions, but place the burden of responsibility for the fulfilment on the others.
Respondent “Respondent mask” is associated with the problem of avoiding responsibility for decision making. People tend to be a disciplinable executor, but not able to take decisions himself, and likely to shift the responsibility for something onto the other person.

– “Games, as played by “We””. First principles of behavior psychology: theory and typology.  Igor Kalinauskas, Kiev, 2005.

Interview with Dr. Gregory Reinin


Psychologist, PhD in Psychology, the Doctor of Philosophy in the field of psychology, the Doctor of philosophy in area Socionics, member of International typological Association. Author of several books and training: “Socionics typology. Small groups”;”Songs of the lotus”

Gregory Reinin proposed the mathematical existence of 11 derivative dichotomies describing the same 16 types in addition to the 4 basic ones.

(Gregory is currently on Sri-Lanka having very slow internet connection, so he asked to record the audio call instead of video conversation)


This interview intended to investigate causalities on health due to relationship interaction under the perspective of Socionics.

(Interview conducted by Anna Roman)


Gregory, good afternoon! Thank you very much that you agreed talk and give us an interview. Let’s try to record the audio conversation, is case Internet connection will be lost, we’ll try again later, ok?


Yes, I agree. If I’m not mistaken, you have some questions regarding Socionics, right?


Socionics, exactly. I have some questions for the Socionics researchers in Brazil, who have been interested in your professional knowledge. First we wanted to make the 3-side conversation, but in order to save our common time, I am going to translate your answers into English and provide for this research.


I can’t hear you very well

(Internet connection was lost, reconnection)


Could you tell a little about your story with Socionics?


That happened by accident in 1981, maybe in 1982 I dropped upon the work of Aušra (Aušra Augustinavičiūtė) “Theory of Interpersonal Relations” and found out interesting topics to investigate. When we started to work together, I realized that there are some ‘blank spaces’ to examine in her works and we decided to explore them together.


Why Socionics promotes better social interaction, in your opinion?


Socionics describes the relations between 16 types very well, and as a result it appears to be a solid instrument for psychoanalysis, and moreover those socionic effects are mostly shown in the uncomfortable, extreme situations, like professional networking or family life, even an expedition. In those cases, the effects appear at their best and could be used to analyze how to improve relations and organize the teams better. Socionics has a lot of functions and can be useful in different areas, where it helps to orientate: analysis of conflictogenic situations in the collective body, formation of the team according to the specific problem or aim.


I see, thank you. And how bad relationships or a bad social environment could be harmful to one’s health, do you consider that connection true? How does the knowledge of Socionics help on that?


Definitely. There is such thing – psychosomatics, when the problem that arises on the psychological basis can affect the body and health, even more if the problem is not being solved for a long time. In that case different strong psychosomatic effects happen and be harmful for the health.


Yes, I see. And in your works there is a lot of information about the Bouquet groups, could you please tell how those groups were discovered? Was it the result of various experiments? If so, how those experiments were conducted? Could you tell how is this concept applied nowadays?


Do you mean the theory taken from my book “Mystery of types”? Yes, I’d love to tell about it. In the beginning of the 90s there was a collaborative work with the Medical Academy (St. Petersburg I. I. Mechnikov State Medical Academy) and one rehabilitation hospital, our aim was to find out how different types go through an illness, how do they suffer and how they cure. We discovered that it is possible to consolidate people in the groups according to these parameters. We came to the idea that hospital accomplish two functions: hospital (cure & therapy) and hotel (people are also living there for a while), so the experimental idea was to make them cure in the groups created according to their illnesses, but live in the groups created in compliance with their socionic types in order to make most comfortable living conditions. The results of those experiment were very good, what was proved by Chief Physician. But this experiment didn’t last long. To sum up, we observed those positive results in 2 hospitals, it was documented and described in my works.


You mean Bouquet and Health groups, right?


Exactly, small groups – 4 types.


I see, and what data did you receive? What was brought to light in this experiment?


Oh so much time passed, frankly speaking now I don’t remember the details, the main thing that we discovered were those 4 groups of course (ESFP + ESTP + ENTP + ENFP) (ISFP + ISTP + INTP + INFP) (ENTJ + ESTJ + ENFJ + ESFJ) (INTJ + ISTJ + INFJ + ISFJ) – these groups have their own spectrum of illnesses, which exactly I can’t say right now, but when they live together they aggravate and dramatize them. And if they are divided to live in other more comfortable groups, the results would be positive and better.


So in the framework of those experiments you mixed up the types to see the better matches, right?


Yes, we combined them in accordance with their socionic types and groups instead of their diagnostics for people to live in comfort groups, to study in comfort groups, etc.


Did they cure better and faster?


Yes, we had this result. Unfortunately, we were not able to finish those experiments, as the administration of the hospital had been changed. Well so that was out attendance and examination, the knowledge regarding the Bouquet groups was received in that experimental way. Out hypothesis was confirmed.


Do you think we need the 4 types to achieve those positive effects? To achieve the perfect interpersonal atmosphere inside the group?


Perfect by which parameter?


I mean the most comfortable relations. Do we need all the 4 types?


In quadra?




To tell the truth I don’t think it’s possible to create the perfect group even with 4 types, it’s likely impossible to build the perfect relations. But quadra differs from the other groups in the point that people “speak the same language”, it’s easier for them to understand the reasons of the conflict inside of their quadra, moreover they can solve it easily. In other groups it’s not usually like that, as types speak “different languages”, being on a different wavelength. But still I don’t believe in the perfect relations… Maybe in any scientific abstracts or theories


Yes, I agree. By the way are there people occupying not one but several groups?


Of course! One type can relate to different groups, definitely. For example, ENTP refers to many groups. If you want, you can read in my book, I told about it more in detail.


Are there data on how much can Socionics affects vital signs, such as heartbeating, sweating etc.? Maybe it was shown in any experiments maybe in hospitals? I mean any particular interpersonal relations between different types, how do they affect the vital signs?


Not only in hospitals, we conducted such experiments with people whose socionic types had been already professionally tested. We created quadras and examined peoples’ wellbeing and mood, also they were put inside the “Control ring” (* Control (Audit) Ring – a small group, consisting of four sociotypes associated with each other for audit. Interaction within the group is characterized by mutual suspicion and chicanery).

We saw critical conditions up to headaches and demands to stop the experiment. So such observations shown that sometimes that Control Ring may happen in the business team, for example, so then people can not cooperate and stand each other at all, even if they are great professionals and experts. But still that was not a rigorous professional experiment, that was done by enthusiasts, as we didn’t have the opportunity to conduct the exact rigorous experiment with with verifiable results and statistics, that always needs financial support.


So any amplitudinous experiments on that matter had been never done?


Widespread and serious – no, never. We just observed and examined different effects, which were confirmed and clearly shown. No more than that, I’ve never heard of any scientific vast experiments.



As far as I know, your experiments were far the most significant and serious, am I right?

Since your experiments, were there any more research done?


You are right, such experiments were never done afterwards. After there were lots of discussions mostly. There are lots of theoretical information even online, everywhere you may find some theories, discussions, thoughts regarding Socionics.


Exactly, lots of theories, but not that much practical information based on real-life experience.


Yes, lot’s of unconfirmed, unverified theories, based on nothing.


Are there reported data of how DUAL or CONFLICT interactions affect a persons’ overall outlook? Like, vital signs?


Outlook? Well, same as the critical mental condition or excellent mental wellbeing may affect the persons’ outlook, I assume in case of dual or conflict interactions it’s possible. As for vital signs… I don’t think do, I’m afraid we don’t have such. But the connection definitely exists.


Like on the mental health itself, right?


Of course, these things belong to the same sphere.


Yes, I have already taken one interview with Kirill Kravchenko, he told me that conflict interactions could even cause several pathologies. Do you agree?


I agree. If any hard and serious conflict is taking place and lasts long, then any psychosomatic problems appear. Suffering personality throws all the problems like garbage to the body, can you imagine? Then the person becomes sick.


Ok, well, I see. And what can you say about the visual identification of types? What does the academia and researches say about visual identification? Have you found any particular signs (markers); what have you found out during your research time?


There is a plenty of these markers in the works of different authors, I can’t say offhand right now, there were special researches on that case (for example, ESTP has prominent cheek-bones and manner of walking, INFJ is usually humpbacked a little bit, generally speaking, there are lots of examined supervisions of the visual signs of types. (*Vitor, I have found an interesting Russian source with full description of visual identification, made by Gulenko, if you want, I will translate it and send to you, too, just let me know).

In olden times, Aušra Augustinavičiūtė prepared the special album: she collected 20-30 characters for each type. Looking at those album, anyone could easily see and understand the markers: physiognomy, countenance, glance, face features; so then the types’ signs were evident.

This album was used to teach the experts.


Are these signs always reliable? Is the visual identification tricky? Could the signs be improper/false? Maybe person has just humped once?


No no, of course you can never identify with 100% assurance. One should always check the other attributes: behavior, tests, but please note that there is no perfect and 100% reliable socio-test for the identification.


Yes, I have heard that. Consequently, the best identification way is professional diagnostics?


Exactly, for now only professional diagnostics, unfortunately. Well, technically I know how this test should be done, but this is a broad time-consuming laborious work, requiring cooperation with big amount of experts. If I agree to do it one day, that would be only in case of fare financing, because personally I don’t need that, and when Socionics become popular and people will need it – then I would be glad to work.


And why, in your opinion, Socionics is not so popular in nowadays world? I know that Socionics is still officially unrecognized science, which nevertheless generates a lot of interest.


Well, it’s a very practical science with the most important ability to analyze interpersonal relations, which no other officially recognized psychological typology is able to provide. Ability to analyse personal types and interpersonal relations – that was a great step Aušra Augustinavičiūtė made, in comparison with other typologies. The next significant step was the typology of small groups that we discussed before, nobody has made any research before me us on that matter. And the fact, that it is not officially recognized science is the result of discreditation and lack of professional use. If you want I have the link with information about the benefits and harm of Socionics (Gregory has sent this link to me, if you want I can translate the information there for you too)


Yes, of course, thank you.


I’m sending you the link via Skype. You can read about the harmful effect that Socionics may cause. Personality can not be absolutized, as it has lots of dimensions and aspects. Typology is only one of them, you can not absolutize it. The whole psychology must not be narrowed down to typology. It’s absurdity.


What do you think, is there any way to spread this science in the right way throughout the world? Make it more popular and useful?


Well I don’t know, it depends on the interest of serious people, scientists.

I can tell you one interesting thing that I experienced, once I was working in the Y. A. Gagarin Cosmonaut Training Centre, and suddenly I saw my book on the directors’ table, “Mystery of Type”, I noticed that the book is quite old and evidently being used for a long time. I asked: “How come, officially Socionics is not recognized by scientists…” He noted: “Well, scientists may not recognize it, they will probably think about it another 20 years, nevertheless, we see the results, we see that it really works, so we use it”, you know..


Yes, I have already heard it, Viktor Prokofiev told me the same story


Exactly, we were together in this Centre that day.


You see, these people are practicians, they look for the things that really work. If Socionics is officially recognized, or unrecognized, it doesn’t matter for them, they don’t care. If they see the instrument that works – they use it, because they have a real problem with bad communication of people. And how much time will scientists thinks and decide to recognize Socionics, for me it doesn’t matter, too. Maybe the reason is lack of really scientific experiments, everything we have is just investigation and observation.


Maybe you can denominate the most significant experiments?


For me the most significant one was the one we conducted with Aušra Augustinavičiūtė in her residence, it has the most important and very significant to me. We investigated the attributes of personality types, which first appeared on paper, I wrote about them, made a table, and then we examined the psychological compatibility of these features. We took socion, a group of 16 personality types, divided it in half, according to the table and examined every indication that there are different tasks, watched how they act, how they behave, how they communicate, for me it was very clear, but this experiment was conducted a very long time ago, since that time such experiments are no longer carried out can be very difficult to meet all the 16 types of personality. To conduct a distortion-free experiment, you need to collect all the 16 personality types together.


And what about those experiment in the hospital, do you consider it important?


Yes, but again, it was observation, not an experiment, I would not call it rigorous experiments. Preliminary observations, which allow you to put the problem, objectives, formulate a hypothesis.


Ok, let’s come back to the visual identification. What should one look for when doing a visual identification? Is it tricky? Could they be improper/false? If so, how can we make sure that the identification is correct?


It depends on the expert. There are experts who are looking at the little details. There are experts who assess the energy and personality as a whole. For example, I can look at a person, and determine exactly what he is INTJ. At the same time, I can not readily explain how I understood it, I define the overall state overall sound, it’s sounds like INTJ. Then you can test it, you can ask him questions, in accordance with a kind of model, allocate more accurately. But, what to look for? Well, pay attention to the whole person. Aušra has taught me this way: “Today we will go to the family of ESTP with ENTP, and here it is – ISFP, and the other one is definitely ESFP. She was just a finger pointing at the type, and we have studied you look, you see 3 minutes of communication will let you know, who the person is. Now of course they do not teach this way. Not there is much more theory than practice.


And for ordinary people who are not using Socionics professionally, is it possible to learn how to apply it in practice, learn how to recognize personality types?


I think that first most important thing is understanding that people are different, a person can be totally different with totally different views and opinions. The second point, do not try to convert people, do not be offended that he is not thinking like you. The very understanding of it is very useful because it allows you to take the edge off of relations. You can teach how to identify if a person is capable of that, we must look on what style of learning is the best: algorithms, theory, practice. Tatiana Prokofiev teaches the identification of personality types. She has an algorithm training scheme, it gives the results. There are experts who is able to just see the type, usually a woman is a good visualization, excellent optic canal, there are such people. There are people who know some ways to learn to identify and determine, there is no single answer. It is difficult to teach, it is also very time-consuming, but there are very capable people who are able to quickly learn. It takes practice and time, three or four months it is necessary to do it.


I also would like to ask some questions regarding dual and conflict relations. Can a conflicting relationship be considered as toxic? What makes them toxic?


What do you mean by toxic?


I mean Harmful, toxic, destructive.


I’ll tell you first about the duality. You may be surprised, but the duals can also be very destructive and toxic to each other, because people can be the same Socionic type, but the social values and moral qualities are totally different, which will cause serious conflict. This people can be opposite. Duals have such a function, they have the opportunity to approach closest to each other emotionally, that is, they can hurt psychologically. That means, if the conflict between the duals, it is much more painful than the conflict inside the conflict relations. I got into such a situation, watched from the side, it happens. Although not as common. In principle, if a long time together, if they have the same value, if they are on the same road – it is good a great relationship. Their bio fields collapse, when two people are no longer needed but each other.


And what about conflict relationships?


I described a lot about conflict relations in his book. All relationships, in particular conflict considered from the viewpoint of Conflict, which means, in terms of conflicts and conflicts cause. Conflict relations has the majority of such conflict points. Virtually all functions have conflicts and misunderstandings, someone who is afraid of someone; someone enables someone; someone scares and ignores, it happens all the time, the situation is very complicated.

Heavier – it is only a controlling relationship. Controller with controlled, there is destructive psychologically difficult relationship, people are just beginning to behave inappropriately. That’s the story. However, dual relations, too, are conflicts, there is no perfect relationship, when everything is good for life. No psychologist can not guarantee you that if you do it ensures that he is a fool.


But still there is the types that are better suited to each other, and there are those who are less match together right?


Of course, there are quadras. Those who are in your quadra, those are better match for you, those who are outside your quadra – those less suitable, another language and understand each other, that’s worse. Judged by its ideas, there is an illusion of communication, it seems that they understand each other, when in fact they have a total misunderstanding.


I have couple of questions about the connection of Socionics, dual and conflicting relationships with health. Have there been any studies on the impact of the dual and conflicting relationships to health, physical and mental?


Here the mass of observations that conflict relations in the family’s bad and unhealthy According psychosomatic mechanism, by other parameters.


how was that investigated?


I do not know. I can answer that I do not know sometimes, too, because I do not know of such research, maybe Tatiana did that on her courses, maybe in Kiev, you’d better ask Sasha Bukalov, he is the director of Institute of Socionics in Kiev. Karpenko and Bukalov are the experts in the field of health, they have a lot of information, moreover they regularly publish a scientific magazine. Talk to them, they will tell you, I can give the contact details, you may contact them.


That would be great, I have a lot of questions on health. How do the dual or conflicting relationships on health indicators such as cortisol level rise, sweating, heart pressure?


To tell the truth, I do not know, I did not measure these parameters, as I have not studied this exact matter. Only at the level of visual perception of conflict, of course it is obvious, suffering person looks worse and feels worse. It can be measured by the astronauts, but this data is secret and never shown to anyone. It is unlikely that we get any information from them.


As for the business and teamwork. What kind of relationship are best suited to work in the work community?


I studied just such an interesting thing, creation of a task group. As for the teams, a group task represents exactly my theory of small groups. In order to solve some specific problems the best solution is to create a certain group of different types to solve business situation. If you already have a team, you need to analyze the points of conflict and potential conflict, then create a matrix of intertype relation in the team. It is necessary to determine the type of all people in the community and create a table of intertype relationship on which to act, it will be a very practical thing. It works quite accurately, and to diagnose current problems. Once again I should say, the effects appear only at a close interaction and sometimes it is sufficient to increase the distance in order to neutralize the conflict. Surely there are plenty of other studies, but I specifically on this issue has not worked.


In case when there is already the form business team with the existing atmosphere and problems, moreover the mismatch of the types is evident, what could be done in that case?

Which relationships work best on a small work team? How to build the healthy relationship atmosphere in a team? What do you usually recommend?


If this type of tank, for example, or the plane and there are bad relationships, the pilot can simply be replaced. If there is a redundancy of various types of professionals, it can be replaced, if this is not, then with them separately to work with a team that is. If they are unique specialists that which can not be replaced by anyone, this also happens, then you have to work with them, you can pay attention to issues that we can talk that can not be the same situation in family life. Because when the family is formed and people are already married, you should be able to adapt. It is important to be able to adapt to the fact that there is. This is the purpose Socionics.


And if that happens so before the creation of the family, two people came to diagnose and they understand that the types are not the best compatibility issues? What could be done it that case?

On an environment with a bad social environment, or else bad Socionics matches, what can be done? How it is possible to improve the harmful situation and unhealthy relationship?


Well this difficult situation of course when it comes to love, usually people don’t really care about the types, problems arise later. There are moments that are not aware. I have not heard that someone found a family according to Socionic type, Socionics usually comes after. It can only be crazy socionists, who marry according to the Socionic types. This greatly restricts and narrows the outlook.


I heard the opinion that any type can find a common language important to know the correct distance.


Of course, if you can find a common language, I say again that the type is only one dimension of the person, there are lots of other measurements such as the nature of the social world of the psychological values of factors that affect the personality and does not relate to the type.


But type does not change with the passage of time, right?


I think so, I think that does not change, personally I’ve never seen that.

You can change it as a mental exercise, but for the lifetime the type can not be changed. When I worked with the actors in the theatre, for an actor it is very important to be able to change the images, to be able to try on different types. But for a long time to try a different type and change behaviour is very difficult for ordinary people. To live so unnaturally energy-intensive. It’s very simple and at the same time extremely important to behave naturally.


I have some questions regarding Socionics and other fields of knowledge. What can be said of Socionics throught the concept of Evoluitonary Biology? Could the types be dependant on the evolution and time?


We can’t say that there is an exact relationship, I have heard such opinions, but never observed in practice. I think It is not in nature, there is no in genetics. There is social heredity as evolutionary or genetic hardly so I do not see the connection.


Is there a conection between Socionics and Game Theory that you see yourself?


It could be said that this theory could be applied to socionics, but I don’t see the direct connection. This Theory is separated but definitely could be applied. Not yet, I guess.


And how it could be applied in your opinion?


Maybe the expert can use it in the experiments, as the idea of 16 types of people is very broad and deep itself and if it is examined through the prism of Game Theory the results might be interesting.


How about Gestalt Psychology, do you see a relation between both?


I guess it also could be applied, from the beginning there is no connection, but as an additional tool that could be useful, because Socionics studies psychological types and interpersonal relations and problems they may cause, and Gestalt Psychology studies the ways to solve those problems. But for now I’ve never heard of such works.


And one more question, do you consider astrology to be influential in a person personality?


Well, from the point of philosophy, there is individual and common features by category, for example, we are all Homo sapience, the common feature, and typology, like psychological types, and astrology describes individual features of the specific individual. Plenty of analytical works was done on this topic, but personally I have never interested in astrology, just a little bit. Although, it is surprising how accurate and truthful the individual description could be in the astrology. And Socionics describes the types, that’s the different story.


Maybe you could advise me any of your works regarding the types and interpersonal relation, health investigations?


Let me think and I will send you some of my works. I have some analytical papers, I will send you with pleasure.

Interview with Kirill Kravchenko

Head of Online School of Socionics
Socionics specialist

Fields of specialization: Training courses, seminars, webinars, consultation, team building, experimentation.


This interview intended to investigate causalities on health due to relationship interaction under the perspective of Socionics.

(interview conducted by Anna Roman)


Thank you very much for the interview. I would like to ask you some questions. First of all, could you please tell us about your story with Socionics, how did the you start working with this science, how has this interest to Socionics appear and what is your current mission?


I became acquainted with Socionics by accident. It was a holiday, Day of Airborne forces (Russian Airborne Troops Day), I was with my friends in the hydro park wearing sailors striped vests, music was loud, there was a girl with us. This girl told us about some kind of nicknames (denominations). From the very beginning I found it strange. But then I started to understand the essence, and came to the conclusion, that there is a certain gap in my education. I started to apply those descriptions to my friends and realized that certain coincidence in characteristics is taking place. After approximately a week my interest to Socionics raised and I have started to learn this science immediately. I attended the international Socionics Conference in Kiev, not even knowing that Kiev was the motherland of Socionics.


Me neither, I didn’t know that


Yes, and then I came to the courses of Victor Gulenko (*One of the major theorists in the field of Socionics. He carried out the study of administrative and educational institutions, commercial enterprises.

He studied the problem of “masks” types, subtypes, small groups, the use of personality typology in the management and education.

His method of Socionic study calls “Socioanalysis”: it is a combination of one or another polar features for modeling the behavior of the system under study in a particular communicative level. His school in Socionics calls “humanitarian Socionics”.)

I can say that I came exactly to the right place. Before that I didn’t study socionics seriously, well, just a week doesn’t make sense. I read all the books I could find, related to Socionics, and was confused with the contradictions in the theories. I was close to even tear to shreds one of those books. After that, hard to say for how long exactly, maybe for 1 or 2 years I was studying and collecting the knowledge, when the idea to create something own, by myself, came to my mind. By that time, I accumulated rich bundle of knowledge together with well-structured information and decided to create training sessions, fully practical, to show how the socionic attributes work in real life and how they can be practically used. Moreover, internet is full of different information that can be collisional and contradictory, so I decided to show in practice, how the socionical functions and attributes work in the special “game” way, so the theories were given as conclusions. Then I started to conduct courses, personal diagnostics, individual consultations, of course. Now I also conduct team-building trainings, as well as lectures, I teach 2 groups currently: beginners and seniors, coming to Kiev on Saturdays. And individual advisory board together with diagnostics I provide each alternate day. That helps me not to loose my professional skills and diagnostic test instrument knowledge. Each week I provide at least couple of diagnostics by Skype or face-to-face, which helps me to sharpen and improve my skills.


Only personal diagnostics, right?


Yes yes, but also I conduct the demonstrative diagnostics during the training session as well, while teaching people how to diagnose. I should say that I am 100% practice oriented, I am not that interested in the theory. Understanding, that the amount of theory nowadays is tragically excessive, while teaching I provide practical knowledge from the very beginning: how to use socionics in life, including the diagnostic skill – the most important in Socionics. 99% of socionists are not skilled enough in diagnostics.


You mean, most of the socionists are theorists, right?


Yes, it is a deplorable fact. I was disappointed to see how Viktor Gulenko, one of the most significant figures in Socionics, has no practical experts among his students. And I decided to take this duty.


  I see. Why Socionics promotes better social interaction, in your opinion?

And if it really does, in which way? How it improves the interpersonal relationships, how it affects business atmosphere? Any kind of social interaction.


Well, let me give the brief description of what I think Socionics is. As could be seen in the name of this science “Socionics”, it is about different social types of people and interpersonal relations between them. The main purpose of Socionics is the improvement of these relations.

What Socionics gives a person in the very beginning of his learning? It gives meaningful usefulness in understanding the peoples’ differences. Realizing that is a half-way to forgiveness, in case any conflicts are already taking place. It’s important to understand that this conflicts mostly don’t have any serious social reasons.

Sometimes we argue. But why do we argue? Because of the differences in temperaments, values. Person himself could be good and nice, but still something goes wrong. That’s exactly what Socionics can explain, teaching tolerance to other people.


Better understanding, right?


Yes, that’s what Socionics gives from the very beginning as the basics. And further while getting to know Socionics better, it gives perspicacity. Deep knowledge can help to perceive the types. Accordingly, in any social cases Socionics helps to understand the main causes and matters, analyzing the situation. The thing is, Socionics which I am professionalizing in, doesn’t consider the psychological type as the whole personality. We fully understand that there is an innate type, which doesn’t cover all our psychological singularities. Moreover, there is personal character, which develops independent from the innate type. Also there are so-called “Accentuates” – the emphasized aspects of personality. And those accentuates could be usually the situational causes of any argues. Those accentuates usually bring the most negative effect to peoples’ relations. I am not denying the fact that socionic types can be dissociable, but when a person has any character trait that is intensified, which means a lot of psychological resources are forwarded to this character trait, from time to time it goes off impulsively. Sometimes it is hidden, sometimes explodes, usually such the activity of this trait is very unstable. In case of such psychological “explosion”, person can become excessively aggressive, unnecessarily pedantic; mood swings can also take place, mood can change every minute in case of intuitive-possibility accentuate.

Those 8 main accentuates can even lead to health pathologies.


That’s exactly what my second question is about. Could bad relationship or bad social environment be harmful to one’s health?


I’m jumping ahead of myself. I just want to add that in case this negative accentuates arise, Socionics gives the answer about how to build the relationships. The easiest way to neutralize the negative accentuate is using the Dual (complementary) function to this certain accentuate.


That means you agree that those accentuates have negative effect to one’s health? Mental or physical.


Absolutely. Of course is leads to health problems, because our psychology and physiology are united. Particularly in the West (*that means Europe, USA, Canada) hormone system and nervous system are never separated and they are considered to be united as well. Consequently, any hormone disruption will affect physiology immediately.


Socionics is able to solve those problems, right?


Of course, socionics helps to solve psychological issues, it is definitely not a medical tool.


Where to begin studying socionics to understand how affecting a bad attitude on health. It is important to understand something about yourself or about other people?


I think here we need to move both sides. Each person pay attention to oneself first, the person is selfish by nature, nothing can be done with that fact. This is good because he would not have survived if he had not thought of himself first. Of course, all the people begin to study themselves first, they begin to explore their weaknesses, being an extrovert or introvert. When actually accumulated a lot of knowledge and the answers, people start to think about applying of this knowledge in practice. Socionics suggests options for interaction in different situations. Accentuate functions affected in acute conflicts. Socionics may assist in the strategic interaction between people, when we can not replace the person himself, because he is a relative or he is your boss. Socionics gives us some recommendations that operate at the level of types and their characters, not only accentuation. To make better use of the correctness of all the layers of the psyche, combining the type of personality, character accentuation. When we work on all three levels, we define the problem much better than if we worked only with types. By studying the problem in detail, we can give a more accurate recommendation.


Is that initially necessary to study 16 types, to understand what type a person refers to?


Yes, you need to learn how to diagnose because the main tool in Socionics is a diagnosis. If a person is not able to diagnose, then socionics becomes a worthless science, it turns into a philosophy.


I have a question about the experiments. Have there been any experiments that revealed the particular types and their interpersonal relationships? Were such experiments that examined the interaction of these types?


We practice constantly experiments during the seminars, courses, but these are small experiments that can not be considered to be serious scientific ones. We examine, we gain experience and knowledge, and then once a year we conduct a broad experiment, observing all the rules. We organize the so-called “double blindness” so then people invited to the experiment do not know what is the essence of the experiment, in which they will be involved, even leading the experiment does not know the essence of the experiment. Observers also not aware of the goal of the experiment, they do not understand the essence, too.


Were there any specific experiments? Was it made in hospitals? What was observed? Have you seen the data? Maybe any vital signs were tested.



I understand what you mean. But as long as the instrument method we are just starting. Let me tell you about an experiment that we carried out 6 years ago. There is a sign of Socionics called central – peripheral. Central types are those people who were born in the “centre”, they have high ambitions in life, they have a value of an aggressive nature, they can sacrifice themselves and others for their own purposes. Half of all socion has a different nature, the peripheral type. They have a strong ideology; these people are often scientific or religious workers, if they occur complexity it is easier to get away from work. Central types not particularly cherish their health. It was perfectly evident in the experiment. The first task it was necessary to move between the trees at the bottom could not get through. We had to jump. The central team types no one thought for a long time, the guy in the white pants and a white T-shirt leaned over and climbed through the mud. Besides, people do not know why they were selected to this team. In the second group which worked out all the little shoes carefully removed gently help each other crossed. It was in such a caring style.


So there were two different types of central and peripheral right?


Yes, and after that we prepared more significant tasks. They had to dig a hole and bury the bottle. Representatives of the central type a hatchet and peripheral took a shovel. Representatives of the central type were digging faster and more active; they didn’t even worry about the possibility to cut fingers. They were not afraid to dig the ground.


A peripheral types of groups they dug a pit ahead, they found the roots to explore the area, and found this place worse than they bad mood and he did not want to do anything. There was a very strong final moment then had to pick opponents cheese. in fact, there was a warning that no fight should not be. Nevertheless, the confrontation was strong.


You mean that the central type is those who are born in geographically central regions and peripheral types, respectively, in the peripheral regions, right? Is this a sign of the place of birth Dependent?


No, what determines the type no one knows. Genetic type does not convey the central value is stress, they are ready to sacrifice themselves and others for their own purposes. It is not dependent on the regions in which they were born and the birth place of those who belong to the type of peripheral They often tend to the centre.


This experiment has shown fundamental differences on the basis of it?


Yes, for the credibility we spent not 1, but 2 days of the experiment. On the second day all the differences hatched even more a consequence of stress. On the second day the team of peripherals announced that they do not want to continue, they are not interested to participate longer in the experiment and that they have no mood to win, but because they were asked to participate, they are ready to continue. A central team for the first day was just a warm-up for the second day motivation and excitement have only increased.


Is that experiment the only one carried out since that time?


Every year we carry out such experiments, always with social interaction. The experiments we conducted in the most stressful conditions; people have forgotten that it was an experiment. In 2014, we conducted an experiment to identify the instigators, that is an inborn quality of provocateurs. These are people with an innate quality to provoke any action and conflict. They are often endowed with talent, but they have a very poor organization. It’s hard for them to organize themselves. The experiment has shown that the ability to organize is very low, but by themselves they are mavericks and provocateurs. People with opposite qualities, they never discussed anything and immediately proceeded to action, the tension was very high. Very high self-organization helping people with the opposite type of effect. A more coordinated team “not provocateurs” acted more quickly, more active, better. Moreover, the accuracy of the experiment, we always do a control group. At the end was a child task, it was necessary to solve the puzzle baby wolf sheep cabbage and so command the provocateurs were not able to solve this problem and 2 team coped very quickly and easily. In the course of the conflict broke out the experiment, people no longer even talk to each other. They have taken seriously and have even forgot that it was just an experiment.


So you mean the provocateurs are the representatives of the conflict type, is it right?


They tend to conflicts more, that’s right.


Ok, and how is it better to contact with them?


One should understand that some people tend to provoke conflicts. And as I already said before, it is important to use the additional function. Let me give an example. There is a function of the force sensing, usually illustrated as temper, aggressiveness. But such people usually calm down quickly. If there is a provocation for this function, it is necessary to apply the position of the added function. In this case it would be the position of the victim (the intuition of time), against the provocation is the best strategy. Any aggressor will be powerless.


So that means, you need to take the position of the victim?


Yes, absolutely, aggressor looses any interest to continue. And if the opposite person is very emotional in a good and bad sense, these emotions can also be destructive for others. In this case, you need to show the complementary function of impartial behavior. Just very strictly it explains everything you need. No emotions does not exhibit this type. The person who will be in bright emotions calm down and go to the balance and impartiality of the wave.


Could you please explain more about the complementary function?


There are 16 types and consequently there are 16 different kinds of interpersonal relations between them. In fact, we can not say that there is any bad relationship, there is a wrong-chosen distance. Any relationship can carry the positive aspects, it is only important to choose the right distance and the right time for these relationships. There are relationships that are good for close range (sexual relations), but they are disruptive for business. A lot of nuances are taking place here; I use them in teambuilding. Best relations are those that are complementary – dual relationship.


In what way has been revealed that any specific types form dual relationship?


In a practical way. This empiricist on observations. We observed relations; socionics differs from other sciences in that it is the science of relationships. Even it is not clear which is more important – the type or relationship. For some people, relations may be more important than the type. Anyway, we take into account all the advantages and drawbacks of the relationship.


Is it possible to build a favourable and healthy relationships that are inherently in conflict? That means, is it possible to obtain a positive outcome. Or so it will be a conflict all the time? Or is it more important to be able to adapt?


In Conflict relations it is more difficult to communicate. Socionics is often seen as a table of types, “who fits me / who fits me not”. I find it wrong, not the right way to treat people, you need to be friends with those who want to be friends, as well as you should love those whom you want to love; and if dialogue fails then socionics will help. That my vision of socionics. Socionics is the science for life, not life is for socionics. Therefore, it is possible to solve any problems in the relationship of conflict, it is possible to live a normal life being married with your conflict type , I know the certain examples, but there are certain rules you need to know. You have to understand that people have completely different values. If both people are aware of socionics, they should be tolerant to each other. Then there are methods that can smooth out the approaching conflict. Most often, the conflict in a relationship is formed, where the distance is too close. We begin to impose their values, not to understand the partners to whom they are alien. Such moments can not be allowed, there are key points that you should always remember. We call them ‘markers’. Actually, getting away from the conflict is very simple, you just need to change the distance, move away. By the way, it is important to be able to negotiate. For example, in this room we live by my rules, we live by your rules. You will see the element of interest.


So for any of the 16 types this method would work, right?


Yes, this method is suitable for any type. There are types more accommodating, as well as less accommodating, but the method will suit anyone. Of course, conflict is not the best way to form a relationship, but if it happened, then it’s no problem, no need to get divorced. Socionics does not recommend such extreme methods.


What do you think of INTJ and ESFP, do these types form conflict relations?


Absolutely. Any relations for these types is very rare thing. That’s strange to see such people in any relationship, as the type ESFP is very sensitive to people, and as I have noticed during our experiments in schools, they usually find suitable people for the relationship themselves. The majority of the marriages of ESFP is with a dual. Sometimes they can even choose the best dual among several of them. So I consider such relationship between INTJ and ESFP to be extremely rare.


Since Reinin’s, were there any more research done? As far as I know Reinin’s experiments were very significant.


Let me tell a little bit about Reinin. How Reinin’s features appeared? What are they? Reinin is a mathematician, who became interested in psychology. He studied the works of Jung, Jung wrote about such a special number 4. Rainin counted some mathematical formulas and concluded that number 4 has a causal relationship with the number 15. Accordingly, he came to the thought that if 4 and 15 are related, that means somewhere there must be another 11 features. That means, Jung gave four features, Reinin had to find 11 more. He went to Aušra, founder of Socionics, and he told her his idea. She immediately endowed 11 features with special properties. Together  they conducted 2 experiments to detect Reinin features. There have been some results, then they decided to repeat the experiment, and finally it had shown absolutely different results … So we can say that no serious experiments were conducted by Rainin, it was more like an observation. Experiments were conducted incorrectly, showing quite different results.



I have also questions here regarding the visual identification. What should one look for when doing a visual identification? Is it tricky? Are there any special features inherent to any specific types? When you see the person for the first time, is it possible to identify?


I should say that Socionics is based on 2 things: temperament and information base. Temperament can not be determined by appearance, because temperament is learned in the dynamics of behaviour. During my practice I saw identical twin’s diagnostic. Well, they’re completely identical, but always have different temperaments, absolutely each time. Therefore, people are very similar to each other have very different temperaments totally different type.


Is type an innate quality?


Of course. Temperament is also innate quality. Psychologists is in sympathy with socionics in this matter. I must say that there is a tendency to define certain qualities in appearance. Temperament we can not determine, but we can look at behavior and we can understand the installation. Here is an example: Managers. These people are specific, down to earth, they see the object, but not what stands behind. They cope well with the organizational moments, chatting on duty phrases. The eyes are very concentrated. Short legs, long well-coordinated body. These are attributes of Managers.

You can define a Humanitarian. Humanitarians looks completely different. Humanitarian installation is close to the female in some points, it is more “feminine”. Male Managers are different from men-Humanitarians. They are less coordinated, eyes staring into the distance, they do not see that in front of his nose, but clearly sees the far horizon. A good facial expression. Sincere smile, even the eyes are smiling. They feel people very well.

Social type is like the Managers type in some points, powerful figures, but unlike the managers they have movable facial expressions, well versed in people, charming, able to position himself with smile. It is always evident that they are interested in dialogue. Such people are excellent sellers. (Examples from Russian show business)

There are also Scientists. These researchers look into the distance, with a facial expression worse than the Managers have, can not show emotions in a timely manner, can smile then when it is inappropriate. They have a very high abstract intelligence and social respectively their duals –Socials, because they know how to reach out to anyone. Therefore, they can be recognized by non-congruate facial expressions and scattered look. They usually have a big head, thin neck, sometimes elongated facial features, unlike Managers who usually have flat faces. But to determine the type by photo is incorrect, because the temperament can not be traced visually, without watching for a long time after the person.


And where do INTJ and ESFP belong to?


INTJ is a Scientist and ESFP belongs to Social type.


So only after watching and analysing the behaviour one can determine the persons’ type?


The best solution is diagnostics, which is always available. It is the fastest and most accurate way to determine the type clearly. Not only type, but also sub-type, accentuates, etc. Apart from diagnostics, behavior is the most important way to observe and analyze.

It’s the most significant think to pay attention to. Appearance is important as well, and behavior to understand persons’ temperament. However, the accuracy of the diagnostics depends on the competency of the expert, also it depends on the ambiance, for better results the situation should be stressful to find out the real type and to see the real emotions. Relaxed situation will not show anything specific, we are all the same when relaxed. That’s why we usually conduct rigorous experiments.


I see. Ok, and when we already know the type, what can we do to avoid conflict relations? What happens physiologically and psychologically in a conflict relationship? I mean, does cortisol levels or sweat raises, can it be measured? How conflict relations affect persons’ health, does he become nervous, annoyed?


The problem lies in the lack of understanding that goes into a permanent regime. The man begins to doubt, it becomes irritable. If you do not take any steps to solve the problem, it can bring to a nervous breakdown, psychosis, psychological diseases. In conflict relationship is the load on the features that initially weak. These functions begin to deteriorate, increase. Man takes on the power with which he can not cope. Example: there is a water pump that pumps the water for big powerful hoses. Water flowing, everything is fine. And there is a small hose, and it served the same pressure capacity. It turns out that it takes uncharacteristic pressure and breaks, as well as function.

There are 8 pathologies that result from such a situation. Intuition of opportunities, for example. When this function increases, it leads to mood swings and bipolar disorder. Mad rise in energy leads to the breakdown – manic-depressive psychosis. These people then rise manic mood is depressed. Another example, the business logic. Business logic is associated with persistent behavior. First person becomes demanding, annoying, bringing the case to the end. Then the person begins to think that all the enemies are around him, then he faces paranoia. There is structural logic: reason, pedantry. A person can become nervous, it tends to over-control, striking example – perfectionists. There is still a force sensing – aggression, outbursts of anger on the grounds alleged attempt on his status. For short periods of time a person has a lot of emission of such aggression, which can lead to epilepsy.


Impact on health is obvious. I would like to clarify that there is an exacerbation of these functions are shown in the case where the type of conflict is an irritant? These functions are obtained excessive that leads to health problems.


Yes, definitely. This is the worst outcome, but also the state border injurious to health.


Which relationships are considered to be the best in a small work team? How to build the healthy relationship atmosphere in a team? What do you usually recommend?


First you need to determine what kind of types are there in a team. It is also important to understand the purpose of the project. It may be that someone wants to build a financial pyramid, and some organized crime groups, there are different goals. You have to understand which types are suitable for which purpose.


Who is best to work with for INTJ? And who will be tensions and conflicts?


For INTJ very good partners are usually ENFJ, semi-dual relationship. But working relationships are more complicated than they seem. There is such relationship kind that was initially considered to be much worse than conflict – audit relationship. But for such kind of a relationship, business or small working team, audit relations will be normal. For INTJ the auditor will be ESTP because INTJ has a weak sensory power, and is the basis for ESTP force sensorics. INTJ will be good to learn from him. By itself, this type of ESTP is a good leader, especially the crisis manager. Hard tidying.


What about your vision of whether it is useful for INTJ to be a leader?


I’ll say this, here we look at the character. There are 4 types of character: harmonizing (in India, will not interfere), normalizing (the majority, the average workers live by the rules), creative (people who go against the rules, they are visited by the original ideas, talented, but they are difficult in the team, they individualists), and rare type – dominant (they have a very strong dominant power, they are interested in what is beneficial. they are great motivators, always bring it to the end). If INTJ is the dominant subtype, it will be a good leader.


On an environment with a bad social environment, or else bad Socionics matches, what can be done? How it is possible to improve the harmful situation and unhealthy relationship? What if there is already a difficult team, which can not be changed?


I must say that here it is important to examine and understand existing types. For example, there is a type ISFP, he can lap to any team. A ESTP, on the contrary, is always very straight, they think – they say. They do not think about the consequences. Of course, if you understand the purpose of the collective and explore the types, then it is easy to find solutions. Perhaps you need to take such a niche, which is empty in the team, any empty role, as a result you will see the collective harmonization.


And what do you usually recommend while working with business teams? Do you usually work individually or collectively, creating any collective tests?


Depends on the needs of the customer. The best way is to conduct the individual diagnostics. And then I give the recommendations directly to the director. Sometimes people could be simply replaced, sometimes they need to be separated.


Could it be the situation when a creative worker occupies the wrong place, for example, doing analytical job?


Yes, of course. Moreover, sometimes general director is searching for the deputy for himself, the most common mistake here, they search for the same type of person, exactly the same. But mostly it is incorrect decision. Those people are more likely to argue rather than work efficiently. Even if the person is a great professional, they can be simply conflicting all the time.

If we want to find a person who keeps things in order and who is accommodating, the best type is normalizing. In case we need anyone result-oriented – then creative would be suitable. If there is a project that need communicative people. For example, for the trade. In that case Social type is the best. Mediator will smooth all the conflicts. If you want to specifically agree on the major issues and deliveries, then the policy is needed.


Back to dual relationship, does dual relationship show positive health and psychological effects then?


Absolutely. People are harmonized, the mood is good, become calmer. This is all thanks to the dual relationship. What is the dual relationship? They initially were greatly exaggerated, that is, if a person is not dualized, he can not live a normal life. The dual relationship – this is when a person does not adapt to his partner. If there is a gating, then small. At straight and hard people have their own duality. It has more flexible duality manifests itself immediately.


And in terms of physical health? Whether studies have been done on that matter?


As for health, peripheral types can show more. There is a duality type of inspector-instructor (ISTJ and ENFJ), their duality can not be called harmony of their relationship from the look like a continuous conflict. They have permanent emotions, the constant drama. They seem to argue, but this lifetime charged. They absolutely do not care about their health, but such an emotional charge promotes life.

For example, if the wife – the ethical-intuitive extrovert, she satisfied her husband scandals, tantrums, but oddly enough, he suffers. It saves energy in itself, then goes to work, requires a higher pay demands increase positions, that is, in this way moves. And for another type of such a model would be devastating.

In the peripheral type of duality can lead to strong harmonization and obsession with each other. In this case, they do not want to build a career. A central more ambitious and are designed to promote career goals. Socionics is the same psychology, but it is a universal philosophy, a tool that can be applied universally.

Nowadays, too many theorists who does not reinforce their knowledge.


Were there situations when a person came and complained of persistent headaches, health problems? And then it turned out that his toxic relationship problem caused stress?


I must say that I am not a doctor. But with such complaints people came to me, then I saw the improvement afterwards. I sometimes work in tandem with the doctor, she does her diagnosis, so do I, then together we find a solution to the problems. It is a family physician. We even tried to determine the type of hardware by the use of the apparatus Voll.

(Electroacupuncture according to Voll or EAV is a device used in alternative medicine. While some may use the device to diagnose ailments, for which there is no credible evidence of diagnostic capability, there are many that use the device for that of which is was designed, the measurement of energy on acupuncture end points. The measurement of energy on acupunture end points was Dr. Voll’s initial interest in EAV. Only several devices are registered in FDA as a galvanic skin response measuring device; they still can’t be used in diagnosis and treatment. The American Cancer Society has concluded that the evidence does not support the use of EAV “as a method that can diagnose, cure, or otherwise help people with cancer” or “as a reliable aid in diagnosis or treatment of .. other illness”

Units reportedly sell for around $15,000 and are promoted for diagnosis of conditions including “parasites, food and environmental sensitivities, candida, nutritional deficiencies and much more.” It is promoted for diagnosis of allergies but “results are not reproducible when subject to rigorous testing and do not correlate with clinical evidence of allergy”.

In tests, double-blind trials, “A wide variability of the measurements was found in most patients irrespective of their allergy status and of the substance tested. Allergic patients showed more negative skin electrical response at the second trial, compared to normal controls, independent of the tested substance. No significant difference in skin electrical response between allergens and negative controls could be detected.)

It was developed during the time of Nazi Germany. Further the development of the machine was stopped, but then resumed again. This tool can determine the appearance of painful lesions. The doctor tried to determine the type, based on the idea that each authority is responsible for a specific psychological function. She diagnosed separately in the same room, I was alone in the other room. Of the 17 respondents have coincided 15. She tried to determine what features are most active in the public areas of the body, on this basis to draw conclusions about socionic type. Separately, it is diagnosed extroversion and introversion.


How can you determine the hardware method?


If I’m not mistaken, she pored over her throat. When a person is shy, squeezed his throat, so evident introversion.

17 participants it is not enough, of course, we had planned to hold a large-scale experiment that reached at least 100 participants.


And you are trying to post their research?


At conferences, unfortunately, do not publish these reports. We publish in journals.


Do you carry out diagnostics on Skype?


Oh sure. Basically skype nowadays.


How far socionics developed at the moment, in your opinion? In Russia it is not as developed as it should be.


In Ukraine, too, only in the big cities. In Kiev, in Odessa. The Conference is nowadays not such a large scale as they were before. The problem hides in those theorists who spoiled socionics, they are trying to assert themselves, not test their hypothesis. They refer to the fact that socionics is a young science, but in fact it is not. People are really engaged with earlier practice; nobody is interested in groundless philosophy.

By the way, I remembered that I wanted to say about the health effects associated with the sport. Man may not choose a sport. First, it creates the risk that it will invest a lot of effort, do not achieve the desired result, and accordingly, if the forces are not directed to the right place, there will be negative consequences. How does this happen? The man has white muscles, which are responsible for endurance, and red muscles that are responsible for the effect. There are people sprinters, absolutely hardy, there is a marathon, on the contrary is very hardy. We have previously studied the matter in detail, we found that there is such thing: rationality and irrationality. Rational – a clear, accurate, consistent, totally flexible. A irrationals – impulsive, sharp, quickly mobilized. Thus, irrational longer fast-twitch muscles, while the contrary is rational over slow twitch muscles, they are more hardy. While as irrationals have more speed and power. Given subtypes, and if they match the types – effect would be great. Boxer will not do load endurance. Those people who work on the stamina, they do not fit the character of the power load, such loads will lead to injuries, and the energy is destructive, the body will be exhausted. An interesting feature in this case is the effect of subtype is even stronger than the effect of type. Personally, I am a rational type and irrational subtype, nevertheless in sport the basis of a subtype.

The correct choice of sport is highly dependent on the health, definitely.


Thank you very much for this interesting conversation, I was incredibly pleased to talk to you.


Thank you!

Researches on Types of Information Metabolism

(note: tim = type of informational metabolism)

Results of linguistic Socionics Association Experiment

Tests some of the propositions of socionics:
1. The preferred use of vocabulary related to the “values of TIM” and “quadra values”;
2. Constant activation of ego-block functions for solving creative problems (subject to successful solutions);
3. Activation of strong (including vital) functions when the performance of a task requires the use of the weak ones. Additional aim of the study: to find out how intra-group relations influence the perception and processing of “non-standard educational information” by different types of TIM, and whether it correlates with the subtypes of School of Humanitarian Socionics (SHS).

Киев, сентябрь 2007. Доклад на ХХІІІ Международной конференции по соционике. / Kiev, Sep 2007. Report at the XXIII International Conference on Socionics.

On problem of statistical verification of the concepts of intertype relations

One of the first attempts to statistically verify the idea of intertype relations in small groups, as described in post-Jungian typology.
Личность и общество: Актуальные проблемы современной психологии, 2000 / Individual and society: Actual problems of modern psychology

Factor analysis of results of the study using Leonhard-Shmishek questionnaire

Presents the results obtained by factor analysis of a mass survey using Shmishec’s questionnaire designed to determine personality accentuations suggested by K. Leonhard. The analysis found four factors-dichotomies and eight psychological parameters that correspond to eight types or functions of the human psyche, described by Jung in his work “Psychological Types” and in the work of the Lithuanian sociologist A.Augustinavichiute. The main value of this work lies in the fact that it practically confirmed the typology of CG Jung – A.Augustinavichiute.



Dichotomous approach to determining TIM: pilot empirical study of some testing methodologies

Provides empirical evidence on validity and reliability of some well-known TIM testing methods – D.Keirsy’s test, S.Nakrokhina’s test, as well as methodology developed by the author of the publication.
Соционика, ментология и психология личности, 2000 / Socionics, Mentology and Psychology of Personality


Presents a new psychological diagnostic complex that helps to define the type of psychological metabolism of a person correctly. The results of the use of the most well-known projective methods for defining TIM are also presented here. The parameters which have high coefficient of correlation with the IM elements were discovered. The author worked out the vector model of TIM that helps to integrate the results of researches according to different methods, and display the main tendencies which promote defining the TIM type.
Вестник ТГГПУ, 2009 / Newspaper of Tatar State University of Humanities and Education


Ahe object of the research is the formation of a project team to enhance the competitiveness of enterprises. The subject of the research is the formation of the internal psychological climate of project teams.

The purpose of this research is to develop a mechanism to optimize the internal psychological climate in project teams for the effective use of human resources based on the analysis of the features of the socionic environment itself as well as on the analysis of the intensity of the poles that form this environment (i.e. what the percentage of each pole are Reinin Criterion (RC) is).

The author has defined the main problems associated with general psychological environment in the team, with the processes of information exchange in the community at the intersection of various disciplines: project management, socionics and information science.

Using knowledge of these disciplines helps to create decision support system for project managers. The computer program “Lad” can be applied by project managers and project team members to develop a strategy and tactics of the optimization of the internal psychological climate in the team in order to solve effectively their specific tasks. Knowledge of the characteristics of communication within a particular group helps both to effectively combine people in a working environment and to create specific groups for different purposes: for long-term cooperation, for “brainstorming”, etc.

The author has suggested an approach to optimize the internal psychological climate of a team for efficient use of human resources with the computer program “Lad.”
Technology audit and production reserves — № 1/2(9), 2013


Deals with the intertype relations and formation of the workkgroups based on Reinin’s types. Looks into solving two problems:
– Determining the type of group intertype relationships based on psychological types
represented in the group;
– Forming of workgroups according to their target setting, taking into account
psychotypes of the people, of whom it is necessary to form a specific group.

Lection 8. Small Groups

Discusses the morphology and formation of small groups as well as the types of the groups based on the psychotype of its members and the type of intertype relations within the group
(Health and Bouqet groups are discussed, among others – more or less only a theoretical approach though!)

Small Groups in socionics

Analysis of formation and psychological climate of small workgroups based on the intertype relations within the group. Discusses the results of experiments based on Reinin’s group types so far.
“Соционика” (информационный бюллетень), Киев – Новосибирск, 1990, № 1

Formation of groups based on the coefficient of comfort in small social groups

This article is an attempt to continue the thought of G. Reinin expressed in his “Morphology of Small Groups”, that “the union of individuals in the group modifies some aspects of their mental activity, significantly changing the speed, the strength and nature of their reactions to the external situation.”
Morphology of Small Groups

Original article of G. Reinin where he describes the types of small groups based on the intertype relationships within the group.
Working Group on Socionics. Method of assigning Reinin’s traits using content analysis

The goal of this study – the development of a practical method of content analysis of written texts and recordings of oral speech based on socionic characteristics. The basis of the method of content analysis was developed for a long time, it is widely used in social psychology and sociology. The study used the results obtained by the working group during the pilot experiment to identify traits of Reinin. It was suggested that some behavioral symptoms that were demonstrated by the subjects could be associated with specific units of TIM.

Evidence of Complementary Brain Activities

Captura de Tela 2016-02-09 às 18.54.18.png

This is the measurement of brain activities over the same task.

This couple according to Socionics (MBTI parallel theory) are of complementary personalities. It’s interesting because regions that are off in one personality is lighten up in the other.

It supports the “Dual” theory by Aushra Augusta, Socionics founder. “Duals” are supposed to be two specific personalities that complement each other in activities.



Q&A with Dr. Dario Nardi on Reddit

Dr. Dario Nardi scanned brain activities with EEG and discovered some fundamental diferences between different personalities as described in MBTI and Socionics typology. In this link he answer questions from public.

Interesting bits:

(…) my research suggests that the second most common pattern is our near-opposite personality type, say ISFP for INTJ. That’s Fi + Se. As I look at the brain activity of midlife adults now in my lab, and not just college students, I see this more than ever. I’ve had two midlife INFJs. Could hardly tell if they are INFJ or ISTP.”

“I describe in “Neuroscience of Personality” a variety of correlations between personality type and frequencies and amplitudes. For example, “solid bright blue” relates to a flow or waiting state, where all regions of the neocortex are dominated by very high amplitude delta waves. Anyone might show this pattern. The link to type is what tasks or events correlate with it. Then there is the “Christmas tree” pattern typical of Ne types. That pattern is high amplitude combined with a range of ever-changing frequencies.”

“With regard to Feeling versus Thinking types, some research about EQ and type (by Roger Pearman?), strongly suggested that Feeling types develop emotional competencies in a particular, steady order that affords decent coverage of all the competences, while Thinking types develop emotional competences to meet environmental demands, often in a haphazard order, and thus can be quite adept in some emotional areas and severely deficient in others.”

 “Also, some people show relatively much more activity in the prefrontal regions than other regions, at least in my lab environment. Among these are the dominant extraverted Intuiting types (ENFP and ENTP) along with most introverted types.”

“Regarding general intelligence, I’ve met INFJs with more accurate mental models and effective definitions than their INTP counterparts in the same technical domain. Similarly, I can imagine an ESFP having more effective organizing skills than her ESTJ peer. I’ve seen ENFJs with more effective use of extraverted Sensing than ISTPs in the same domain. There are many possible reasons: — better integration of self and the various functions — an environment that is more appropriate (e.g. INTP alchemist versus ISFP chemist–who does chemistry better?) — different developmental space (or developmental level, if you’re into that)”

“In the EEG, I have never seen an INFJ or INTJ — either college age or among the 3 midlifers — meet the criteria for the “Christmas tree” pattern so common with ENTP and ENFP, and present at times for INTP and INFP. That form of cross-contextual thinking is just not happening in the brain.”


Gulenko & Nardi discusses ‘Introverted Intuition’

Neuroloscientist Dr. Dario Nardi and Socionist Dr. Viktor Gulenko discusses NI or “Intuition of time” and it’s correlation to brain activities on the areas of T6 and P4 (regions of brain activities).

A Talk by Dario Nardi on Personality Brain Scanning

UCLA professor and author, Dario Nardi, has discovered that people of different personality types don’t merely rely on different brain regions — they use their brains in fundamentally different ways.